Author Topic: provac degassing chamber  (Read 750 times)

Offline SBuck88

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provac degassing chamber
« on: 04/11/18 10:52 UTC »
I saw a video where a guy used one of these to degass his plastic before heating.  Does anyone here have experience with one of these?  I'm curious now!
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Offline efishnc

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Re: provac degassing chamber
« Reply #1 on: 04/11/18 11:23 UTC »
Please post the link if have it... I'm curious as well!

Offline SBuck88

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Re: provac degassing chamber
« Reply #2 on: 04/11/18 13:33 UTC »
Please post the link if have it... I'm curious as well!

Fast forward to the 4:43 mark.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zx46dZK-7CQ
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Online Thump Huntin

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Re: provac degassing chamber
« Reply #3 on: 04/11/18 13:50 UTC »
Just buy degassed plastic. All I use now. Can’t say I’ve ever had to use stabilizer on any dark colors. Wild how much he poured into his black as well as red which was unnecessary in my opinion.
« Last Edit: 04/11/18 13:58 UTC by Thump Huntin »

Offline WALLEYE WACKER

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Re: provac degassing chamber
« Reply #4 on: 04/12/18 05:08 UTC »
The color turned out really nice for the most part. I sounded how many people buy degassed vs regular.

Offline bryanmc57

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Re: provac degassing chamber
« Reply #5 on: 04/14/18 07:50 UTC »
Just buy degassed plastic. All I use now.

When you shake or mix your plastic doesn't it reintroduce air into it?

Online ctom

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Re: provac degassing chamber
« Reply #6 on: 04/14/18 08:37 UTC »
When you shake or mix your plastic doesn't it reintroduce air into it?

Exactly. And most plastics are "de-gassed" at the point of manufacture so when a person gets it delivered that has already been done...except the shaking and bouncing around in delivery vehicles that puts air back into it. Stop and think about it a minute and one will realize that air gets put back into the plastic as its stirred just before its injected.

I have never been one to fret over the small bubbles seen occasionally in baits. I put glitter and other stuff in the plastic to make it reflect more light. And tiny bubbles found inside a bait does the same exact thing.

That video lost my attention when the guy dumped in  as much stabilizer as he did in colors that don't need it. All that smoke rolling out of those cups was vaporized stabilizer and he had only a fan to move it out of his way. Its still circulating in the air. De-gas or not is an individual preference and if a person feels better doing it, great. Reality is that if people purchase quality products to start with this part of the game plan isn't needed. Plus the equipment to do this isn't cheap.

Offline SBuck88

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Re: provac degassing chamber
« Reply #7 on: 04/14/18 09:46 UTC »
Exactly. And most plastics are "de-gassed" at the point of manufacture so when a person gets it delivered that has already been done...except the shaking and bouncing around in delivery vehicles that puts air back into it. Stop and think about it a minute and one will realize that air gets put back into the plastic as its stirred just before its injected.

I have never been one to fret over the small bubbles seen occasionally in baits. I put glitter and other stuff in the plastic to make it reflect more light. And tiny bubbles found inside a bait does the same exact thing.

That video lost my attention when the guy dumped in  as much stabilizer as he did in colors that don't need it. All that smoke rolling out of those cups was vaporized stabilizer and he had only a fan to move it out of his way. Its still circulating in the air. De-gas or not is an individual preference and if a person feels better doing it, great. Reality is that if people purchase quality products to start with this part of the game plan isn't needed. Plus the equipment to do this isn't cheap.
Yeah, I found it interesting.  I'm not going to buy one of those though.

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Offline efishnc

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Re: provac degassing chamber
« Reply #8 on: 04/14/18 10:34 UTC »
Not that I’m going to run out and buy such a unit, but I think it may indeed have merit.

My plastic goes from the shaken box bladder having no (visible) air in it, to the cup and heated to temp (before adding colorants or glitter).  I stir only lightly during the heating process to maintain even temperatures and have seen bubbles form for no apparent reason… 2XL and I have talked about this happening with plastic from different manufacturers.  I cannot say whether some bad batches of (bubble causing) plastic might have been made by a common large producer which subsequently got distributed to a number of the smaller selling companies – or – maybe these smaller selling companies have all inadvertently introduced air when transferring from the large incoming barrels to smaller outgoing sales units.  The only thing I CAN say is that I do not believe these bubbles are caused by anything I did wrong to introduce air into my mixture(s), and the only cure I’ve found for making good clear baits with such plastic is to let it ‘settle’ a bit after reaching temperature.  Dissolved air sounds like a reasonable explanation for these troublesome bubbles and – if it is – I think a degassing chamber would be the surest cure anyone could find.  (I don’t believe this is a humidity issue as some have proposed because I would expect bubbles caused by this mechanism to truly manifest before reaching 220F.) 

If these bubbles are caused by some errant chemical process/interaction, only the manufacturer can cure it, and we hobbyists need to tell our sellers of the problems, so they can pass it up the line.

Offline Do-It Corp.

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Re: provac degassing chamber
« Reply #9 on: 04/14/18 11:24 UTC »
We actually "degass" our plastisol twice during production.  With that said, "degassed" is only a temporary state.

Online ctom

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Re: provac degassing chamber
« Reply #10 on: 04/14/18 12:04 UTC »
Much of what you say is true Dave, but consider all that gets added to plastic: hi lite powders, glitters, glass beads....it all contains air, but certainly does not mean that it doesn't hold any moisture too. It doesn't matter how careful one is in handling the plastic, air and moisture gets introduced in a whole host of ways at the user end. I honestly feel that most of the sellers of plastic do a great job of providing a product that has been made in the most stringent of conditions but beyond that its the user that generates most of the issues that get brought up and usually its done inadvertently or thru haste.

Plastic in the bladder packs allow air in no matter how careful a person is. Simply heating cold plastic will generate moisture, even in raw plastic from the bladder packs. If people find that spending the time or money to "de-gas" their plastic, by all means do it, but those same people need to understand that glass and plastic cooking vessels have porous surfaces that harbor both air and moisture in minute quantities and that the act of heating the plastic releases and expands those elements. I use all glass pyrex cups and keep them "kitchen" clean and dry. I also put each cup in the microwave for twenty seconds without an thing in them and give them a good wipe with paper towel before I even think of adding any plastic to the cup. All of my cooking is done in an un-heated garage but every single component that goes into a cup is kept in the house in a very wary utility room that's constantly de-humidified. While its cold out my cups are also kept inside. I mix my batches in the house when its cold and carry them to the garage to cook and I never, ever cook when its below 35 degrees in the garage and only then after I run some empty cups thru the microwave for a minute and then give the inside a wipe down.

Like I said, if people want to de-gas that's great. My personal feelings are that it does nothing that some fore-thought won't take care of.

Offline efishnc

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Re: provac degassing chamber
« Reply #11 on: 04/14/18 15:45 UTC »
We actually "degass" our plastisol twice during production.  With that said, "degassed" is only a temporary state.

What vacuum do you bring the plastisol down to (and for what amount of time)?

I'm optimistic a person could construct something that would perform such a task and consistently expedite clear bait making.

Online ctom

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Re: provac degassing chamber
« Reply #12 on: 04/14/18 16:24 UTC »
I think a pressure cooker would work if the pressure vent was eliminated and a hose fitting adapted to it. You'd have to add a relief valve but that would amount to another hole. The original gasket should suffice and a low grade vacuum pump is all you'd need. I have an old pressure cooker in the garage if you want one to work with. Carole and I wouldn't have a problem with a day trip to Lacrosse.

Offline efishnc

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Re: provac degassing chamber
« Reply #13 on: 04/14/18 20:25 UTC »
I think a pressure cooker would work if the pressure vent was eliminated and a hose fitting adapted to it. You'd have to add a relief valve but that would amount to another hole. The original gasket should suffice and a low grade vacuum pump is all you'd need. I have an old pressure cooker in the garage if you want one to work with. Carole and I wouldn't have a problem with a day trip to Lacrosse.

Well, that sounds like the perfect afternoon experiment for a couple of stubborn lure makers, but there are a few hurdles to clear before this can be addressed: first, we recently moved about 30 miles south (from French Island to Victory) making such a trip a little longer, but I'm sure you'll agree well worth it once you see the  property; and second, all my crafting materials are loosely stored in our barn until a new shop gets built, which I'm hoping to get ASAP, but I can't find any builders that are able to match my schedule (potentially putting this off until June).

Online Thump Huntin

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Re: provac degassing chamber
« Reply #14 on: 04/14/18 20:51 UTC »
Sorry for late response.  I moved on from Do-It plastisol years back after nightmares. Many swear by it but didn’t work for me after two boxes of Crystal Clear and two boxes of Essential. Nothing against Do-It and by no means am I trying to bad mouth them.

Since then I use/d Baitjunkys degassed and some MF Manufacturing. The Baitjunkys treated me great with minimal bubbles. Baitjunkys no longer sells plastisol and has switched over to BaitPlastics.com for it and the product is called Polysol.  Supposedly it the same as Baitjunkys.  I haven't tried it due to work hampering my bait making lifestyle.

The MF Easy Stretch I got when it 1st came out was crazy horrible with bubbles but later was discovered was a bad batch or something.  Many raved about it and I plan on trying a newer batch of it. Jeff sent me some other plastisol in the mean time to make up for it that had so very little bubbles it blew my mind. 

I purchase 1 gallon jugs and roll them to stir and don’t shake anymore.  Any bubbles that might form I burn off with a blow torch.  I heat in a 2 step phase. The initial heat is usually 2 minutes 30 seconds which puts it almost to 350 with the 2nd heat around 20 seconds to get it there. I mostly rotate my heated plastic like a wine of glass instead of stirring with an object.  Too many folks heat, stir, heat, stir, heat, stir to no end which results in bubble nightmare. I too heat my glassware in microwave for 20 seconds before I use.  I also clean my glassware with rubbing alcohol at the start of a pour.  Cardboard insert in microwave.

Hope this helps.
« Last Edit: 04/15/18 04:33 UTC by Thump Huntin »