Super Rooster Hair

[RichieRich]

Hello, newbie here, my first post.
I've enjoyed using the Super Rooster safety pin bait (Yakima now) for many years. It's been difficult to get the right colors, better hooks and different blades for a long time, so I started making my own. The last batch of original Super Roosters had blades that didn't turn properly and bodies that the paint came off of after 1 outing.

It's been a lot of trial and error but I finally got it down pretty good. I feel mine are much better than the original. The two biggest problems I've encountered have been the right hair/decoration and the right attachment for the hook.

I've tried various feathers, marabou and deer hair. Deer belly hair has been the best so far but after several strikes the hair has dwindled to almost nothing. Either they're biting it off or pulling it off. Unless there's a hit the hair usually stays on pretty good, but not as good as the original Super Rooster type, which I don't know what that is; deer???. I cut a section of deer hair, place it on the wire then wrap it with a thread-spool of thread designed for wrapping.

The original double hook (#4?) is pretty small and I got tired of fish getting off because of that. I purchase #3 treble hooks and cut off the odd one. That works much better but recently I had a hook pull off when I had a fish hookup. That's the first one so maybe not a big problem. It was a nice fish, however. 

My questions are:
1. Does anyone know what kind of hair is used on the Super Rooster?
2. Is there a better way to add hair to the wire?
3. Does anyone know the best way to connect a treble hook to the stainless wire?

-RichieRich in KY

[ctom]

Welcome to the website!

There are a bunch of tyers here and hopefully a couple will jump in here.

As to your questions:

#1. I think what is sued on the originals is some longer hackle feather fibers. Neck hackles have some fairly long fibers near the base of the feather.

#2. I think you'll do better tying the fibers to the hook, between the hooks, which means three separate ties.

#3. Unless you have a decent wire former  to make a clean loop with the eye of the hook inside it, that split ring is likely to be your best bet.

I'll let others chime in here to offer their ideas.

Again, welcome to th Custom Baits site!

[RichieRich]

Hi, Ctom, thanks for the reply.

I'm trying to stay as close to the original as possible and on those the hair is tied on the wire above the hooks. I did make inline spinners with the hair tied on the hooks. With only the double and not treble hooks, tying there doesn't work as well.  I've tried marabou, saddle hackle and deer belly hair. The deer hair seems to be the closest to the original but it's considerably thicker than whatever Worden was using (original creator). If it is saddle hackle it must be stripped from the center portion. I haven't tried that yet. I'll get some neck hackle too.

On the hooks I've tried a couple of different techniques. I use round nose pliers and either create a double loop and lay the tag end across the loops or I create a single loop with the tag end bent across the wire, which is what the Worden lures use.

[RichieRich]

Here are samples of what I'm creating. I'm mostly interested in the Super Roosters

[ctom]

I can see now what you've done in lieu of a split ring. That looks good. Your hand-ties look super.

On the hooks and tying..... first, a treble hook will be a balanced hook. The double hooks as you have shown will not be balanced and may create issues on the retrieve. Second, deer hair is hollow and will want to float so it's not a real good option for lighter weight spinners such as what you're making. Feather fibers stripped off the feather shaft will create a lot of action in the water and not try to lift the lure like deer hair will.

[RichieRich]

That's good information on the deer hair. I'll try stripping the feathers for a few of the lures and see if that's what I need.

The double hook is what the Super Rooster has, it's just smaller than mine and also thinner. I've had fish straighten out hooks. That's why I went with larger and stronger hooks. The double hook allows the spinner to skid over objects like limbs and logs. I've not had any problems with them throwing off the center.

Thanks for the compliments on the hand ties. I struggled with that in the beginning but I think I have it now. The loop for the hook was also a struggle to roll over the tag end on the wire. It appears to be better but I need a couple of hook ups to test it.

I'll do a couple of lures with the feathers and see how that works. I really appreciate your input.

Tight lines
-Rich

[Fatman]

Looks good!! 

1.  Usually tied with hackle feathers.  But...  You can use other stuff - Rabbit or Fox hair.

2.  It can be a pain in the butt!!  Tie in securely and then spin it around the wire.

3.  I usually put the wire through the eye and two to three spins to make it secure.  I've seen others do a close loop and then use a split ring. 


My nephew gave me a spinner to copy for him and this was it. 

[Muskygary]

The hair on the original looks a lot thinner than what your tying. Maybe use less hair on your ties? You might also try some craft fur. Your baits do look very good!

[RichieRich]

Fatman, your picture is very small. Do you have a larger one with more detail?

One, maybe both of your lures use a ripple-swing blade. I'd like to know what kind of hair is used on the Worden's spinners. Ctom says to try neck hackle and Barlow's has a nice selection of that, different colors. I just bought a bunch of colored deer hair, so I need to use that first. Rabbit may be like marabou; soft and holding water. I've not tried fox hair but their body hair looks interesting.

I was looking at the Yakima Super Roosters this morning and their description says "hackle design", so it looks like Ctom is on to something there. Yakima's picture shows a double hook on the Super Rooster. With the double hook they don't seem to get stuck on limbs like most spinners. At least they offer a lot more colors now, but with designs (like coachdog) on them. I've had good luck with the "scales" design or just solid colors.

Lure Parts Online has some really great  Super Rooster bodies. I use them for both the inline and safety pin spinners. Barlow's has a good assortment of swing, ripple, etc. blades
https://www.lurepartsonline.com/Lead-Lure-Bodies_2
https://barlowstackle.com/lure-making/blades/french-ripple-and-inline-blades/

For these spinners I want to stay close to Worden's original design, with some improvements. I've used them for many years and my only real concerns are the limited number of colors and the small hooks. The regular Rooster tail twists your line like most inline spinners, so I was glad to see them come out with the Super Rooster Tail. Another spinner I have used is a Shyster; old lure. They are inline but instead of just having a wire circle for tying onto the line they use a triangle (see my inline pics). That lets the spinner sag on the line and keeps it from turning around, twisting your line.

I buy the #3 VMC hook and cut off the odd hook. (You can see where it's welded to the others). I have tried using several turns of the round nose pliers onto the hook eye. I thought that was okay but I lost a fish on the last trip when the hook came off. It must have unscrewed. Now I'm doing a single turn through the hook eye and then a turn around the spinner shaft. It's difficult but that's what the original lure has. You can see the difference in the pics I posted above.

[RichieRich]

Hi MuskyGary. Thanks for the reply and compliment. I agree that the originals have thinner hair. I've been searching for and trying different types. My wife and I were fishing out of our kayak on a local park lake and she started catching these 15+" channel cats on them. Each fish was bigger than the previous, to 19". After 5 or 6 she noticed the hair was gone and asked if it made a difference. I said to throw it out there and try. It didn't. She continued to catch them until the last one broke her line. It was the only pink one I had and they didn't seem to want another color. So maybe the hair doesn't make that big a difference. 

[RichieRich]

Here's one with hackle. It was rushed and my first one doing the hackle this way. I think that is what the Worden's Super Rooster is made with, however. It looks to me to be much closer, thinner hair.

[Fatman]

Sorry don't have it as I gave it to him!  and most of my pictures hit the deck when Photo bucket bit the big one. 

I've used ripple blades but I have a lot of old Swiss Swing blades that I use too. 

For tying wet fly hackle use YouTube and look for tying in wet fly hackle - Instead of tying on the shank of a hook you'll be tying in on the wire shaft of the spinner.

[RichieRich]

Thanks on the wet hackle advice. I'll check it out.

[bigjim5589]

Roostertail spinners looked to me like they use neck hackle, and a technique called folding the hackle. that places the hackle fibers on one side of the feather, so when you wrap it, it makes it appear fuller, with less wraps. They're likely tying two or three spinners with one feather by doing that. Then the thread is used to cover the hackle stems.

I've dressed trebles and spinner wires before with all the types of hair you're tried, and others, and each has a little different action. Mepps claims that squirrel tail hair is the best they're used, but I've yet to find any single material as a best.

It's probably more so about the marketing and cost why a specific material may be used.

[RichieRich]

Hi BigJim and thanks for the information. My hackle is saddle hackle and it's pretty small. No way you're getting more than 1 spinner out of that; it's cheap. I used one feather and pulled off the furry start and the short, soft end, then I stripped one side of the hackle. Then I wrapped one end on the wire, rolled it around the wire, then finished up with the wrap. It's going to need larger hackle for sure.  It will take a few times to figure things out and get what I want. I asked a tackle shop about Super Rooster hair and they just said it was proprietary. I went to the Yakima site and they say it's hackle, so that narrows it down.

I normally fish them 3-5', slow cranking gets them a little deeper. I'm catching fish with the deer hair but I think thinner hair will get me deeper.  Shallow banks and docks are mostly where I throw them. I see several videos on folding hackle so I'll check those out this morning...later