Author Topic: My jigs with a keeper coming loose?  (Read 470 times)

Offline eriksat1

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My jigs with a keeper coming loose?
« on: 08/03/22 13:24 UTC »
I am making some 1/32 and 1/24, 1/8, oz round head jigs with #4 and #6 hooks with the keeper for holding plastic grubs on but after a few casts it seems like the keepers are coming loose. What am I doing wrong? Sometimes the jig head also is coming loose from the hook. I tried letting them cool longer before removing from the mold, but doesn't seem to be helping. Any suggestions?
Thanks

Online ctom

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Re: My jigs with a keeper coming loose?
« Reply #1 on: 08/03/22 18:55 UTC »
Try using less than pure lead. Pick up a spool of wire solder of about 60% lead, 40% tin, no fluxing. If you're using a 4 pound pot use about 14"-16" of the wire in the lead. A ten pound pot maybe 3 of the 16" lengths. A 20 pound pot, 8 of the 16" lengths. Melt the wire in, stir and try a couple pours. Trial and error is the name of the game at this point, but pure lead in those small heads is just too soft to effectively hold those keepers tightly.
There are good ships
and wood ships
ships that sail the sea
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and may they
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Offline bigjim5589

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Re: My jigs with a keeper coming loose?
« Reply #2 on: 08/03/22 19:31 UTC »
I agree with ctom, that harder lead will help, but that's usually more often caused by how you remove the jigs from the mold. You cannot pry against the hooks or wires, or they will be loose.  Some of Do It's newer molds, like the Midwest Finesse, that mold causes folks problems with the keepers & hooks coming out of the mold loose. I have that mold, and have found that I have to carefully wiggle the jig by the sprue, to get it moving & lift it straight out as best I can. I over pour the sprue so I have plenty of lead to grab with my pliers.  Also the WB400 wires, do not have a lot of lead around it where it sits in the lead.

I gave up on using the WB400 keepers and only use the larger size now. That means I do have to cut and/or re-bend some of them so they fit the molds, and I've modified some molds for them. I don't have a lot of problems now with the keepers getting loose, because there's plenty of lead around the bent ends of the wires, but still have to be very careful removing jigs from the molds.

Offline eriksat1

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Re: My jigs with a keeper coming loose?
« Reply #3 on: 08/06/22 10:50 UTC »
Well I made another batch today and I tried a good double dip in powder paint all the way down the hook past the keeper then cured good. I will see how that powder paint help hold them. If not I will try the solder.
« Last Edit: 08/06/22 10:51 UTC by eriksat1 »

Offline Shaunm81

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Re: My jigs with a keeper coming loose?
« Reply #4 on: 08/06/22 15:34 UTC »
Hmmmm yeah I have that issue myself.  I thought about trying some wheel weights but might be a bit to hard? Once I powder paint I leave most paint on the keepers and once baked they seem like they are not going anywhere.

Offline Lines

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Re: My jigs with a keeper coming loose?
« Reply #5 on: 08/06/22 15:48 UTC »
I have the 1/24 and 1/32 oz mold with keepers. All mentions above about using harder lead are correct. I have been pour with wheel weight lead because it was gifted to me. For these two sizes it works great, and I haven't had any loose keepers. Harder lead does pose a problem for my larger molds like the poison swingtail in 1/2 oz and 3/4. I get some incomplete pours sometimes. Softer lead should be better there.

Added note: wheel weight lead is pretty dirty and requires more skimming.

« Last Edit: 08/06/22 15:51 UTC by Lines »

Offline smalljaw

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Re: My jigs with a keeper coming loose?
« Reply #6 on: 08/07/22 05:04 UTC »
NO WHEEL WEIGHTS!!!! The newer ones have a high zinc content and will ruin your pot in short order. Get some 3% to 5% antimonial lead, it isn't too hard to pour but will help your keepers from coming loose.

Offline bigjim5589

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Re: My jigs with a keeper coming loose?
« Reply #7 on: 08/07/22 09:15 UTC »
I've used wheel weight lead for many years, but as smalljaw has said, the producers of wheel weights have changed how they make them, and are intending to phase out lead completely. Now, they may be zinc, steel or a combination of metals other than lead and what is still lead has less lead than used to be in them.

If you do use any that contains zinc, you want to use a melting method other than a bottom pour. You certainly don't want to use weights that are all zinc, but they tend to be difficult to melt in the electric type pots anyway.   

I have both a bottom pour & a Hot Pot, and use the Hot Pot most often. You want to keep the lead temp down, so it's just molten, under 650 degrees if possible, and get the molds very hot to get complete pours. Zinc melts at a much higher temp than lead, so by keeping the lead temp down, most of the zinc will rise to the top & can be skimmed off, but it's still best to not use it, especially with a bottom pour pot.

Lead wheel weights should also always be melted down into ingots to use for pouring, not direct into your melting equipment. That way you're not dealing with as much dirt & other contaminants, plus some of the other metals can be skimmed off as well as oxidized lead & other metals.  I do use my Hot Pot for melting down scrap and pouring ingots, but do not pour into molds using scrap until I make ingots. Also, do not flux wheel weight lead. Many folks are under the impression that fluxing removes contaminants, and it does not. It reduces some oxidized metal back to the elemental form, and if you have zinc in the lead you want it to be skimmed off as oxidized metal, not returned back into the lead.

I don't flux lead anyway, as it's a waste of time & effort, and all it usually does as far as pouring fishing jigs & sinkers is flame up, which can be a safety hazard, and make a lot of unnecessary smoke that can be a health hazard.
« Last Edit: 08/07/22 12:05 UTC by bigjim5589 »

Online ctom

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Re: My jigs with a keeper coming loose?
« Reply #8 on: 08/07/22 10:26 UTC »
I got started with jighead and sinker casting right around 1964. I think I have used some candle wax a couple times in all those years to flux my lead, the last time a long time ago. It just makes a stinky mess so why? About 1975 I bought a propane fueled 100 pound plumbers pot and melted wheel weights, lots of wheel weights, and cast ingots to use in a ten pound hot pot used for hand pouring. I ran into a sheetmetal worker who was currently replacing the lead walls of some of Mayo Clinic's X-Ray rooms and I ended up getting almost a ton of 3/16" thick pure lead sheets that had some construction adhesive on them. I spend a week scraping old adhesive, then cutting the sheets down to 2" wide strips 12" long. I still have a couple of those strips in my lead pile. I was also given six 100 pound lead counterweights used in portable X-Ray machines. Each of those went into the 100 pound smelter and cast into 2-1/2 pound ingots, many of which are still around somewhere in all my junk.

Years ago, like back in the 60's into the early 70's wheel weights and other lead products were made largely of pure lead. In the early mid-70's that lead started to get cut with other metals and today pure lead is an expensive metal. You younger fellas missed the boat when it comes to cheap lead for fishing tackle.
There are good ships
and wood ships
ships that sail the sea
but the best ships are friendships
and may they
always be ......An Irish Toast

Offline bigjim5589

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Re: My jigs with a keeper coming loose?
« Reply #9 on: 08/07/22 12:09 UTC »
I got started with jighead and sinker casting right around 1964. I think I have used some candle wax a couple times in all those years to flux my lead, the last time a long time ago. It just makes a stinky mess so why? About 1975 I bought a propane fueled 100 pound plumbers pot and melted wheel weights, lots of wheel weights, and cast ingots to use in a ten pound hot pot used for hand pouring. I ran into a sheetmetal worker who was currently replacing the lead walls of some of Mayo Clinic's X-Ray rooms and I ended up getting almost a ton of 3/16" thick pure lead sheets that had some construction adhesive on them. I spend a week scraping old adhesive, then cutting the sheets down to 2" wide strips 12" long. I still have a couple of those strips in my lead pile. I was also given six 100 pound lead counterweights used in portable X-Ray machines. Each of those went into the 100 pound smelter and cast into 2-1/2 pound ingots, many of which are still around somewhere in all my junk.

Years ago, like back in the 60's into the early 70's wheel weights and other lead products were made largely of pure lead. In the early mid-70's that lead started to get cut with other metals and today pure lead is an expensive metal. You younger fellas missed the boat when it comes to cheap lead for fishing tackle.

I'm not quite as old as you are, but have been pouring for 50 years and have used scrap from various sources. Wheel weight lead was always easiest to get, as many shops used to give them away. That's not the case now as more & more folks got into making & selling lead based fishing lures. It's also gotten worse with all the folks who want to stop the use of lead completely, based on their misconceptions about lead. It will continue to get even worse too as the older generations depart this world.  :(

Offline Lines

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Re: My jigs with a keeper coming loose?
« Reply #10 on: 08/07/22 14:04 UTC »
It will continue to get even worse too as the older generations depart this world.  :(

Sad, but true.