Custom Baits - Forum
Soft Plastic Bait Making => Getting Started / Customer Support => Topic started by: jrock22 on 12/20/19 10:51 UTC
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I feel bad constantly posting all these noob questions, so I appreciate how helpful ya'll are
Started pouring the beavers...had great success with my intended watermelon colors and initial black colors....but when I started pouring a recent black batch, stuff got weird. I can't isolate what I'm doing differently, but I'm now ending up with very small "holes" in the bait. I did the best I could to take a photo (see attached).
The recipe (which worked well with the watermelon green) is also attached. I do closely monitor temp with a thermometer.
Thoughts? Thx as always.
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Its air coming from the pores in the sand cast aluminum. I'm thinking repeated injections could get rid of these pock marks, but you can also pick up a can of Hig Temp Engine enamel, black is fine. and spray the mating surfaces of the mold. Let it dry hard a couple days and then cast. The paint will seal the pores of the mold and the baits will have a much shinier appearance. Wash the mold good with alcohol or lacquer thinner and let dry an hour prior to painting.
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wow...interesting....ty!
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I notice in one of my senko molds the aluminum is a little rougher (and so that's reflected in the pour)...while the other mold is very very clean (and I get a much smoother senko pour)...I assume this could help that as well?
Any particular brand or will this to the trick?
https://www.amazon.com/VHT-SP145-Engine-Enamel-Gloss/dp/B000CPIMW6/ref=sr_1_2?crid=607PE3CO0TKL&keywords=vht+high+temp+engine+enamel&qid=1576863106&sprefix=high+temp+engine+enamel%2Caps%2C143&sr=8-2
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That paint will work.
I know the bug mold is an essential mold. Are the senko molds both essential too?
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I have both...one senko es and one that's smooth aluminum.
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The smooth one is a cnc cut mold and should not have any of the pock marks in a finished bait.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3IZmISLEjY
Hope this helps in painting the mold
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I believe ctom meant to say spray the cavity of the mold, not the mating surfaces... ;)
Where did you get that recipe database? It looks cool and I'm tired of having 100 pieces of paper laying around.. LOL
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I second the where did you get the data sheet?
I've done the essential molds both ways - sprayed mating and taped and cut out cavities prior to spraying. Both worked equally well for me. I also used what it called liquid masking tape...a brush-on product that dries so it can be simply peeled off when the paint has dried. This stuff can be hard to find but is the cat's meow for prepping a mold for cavity painting.
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Where did you find the liquid masking tape? That sounds like a neat product. What do you gain by spraying the mating surfaces?
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You save time spraying both mating surfaces. They're both equal unless a guy gets nuts with the paint. It takes very little paint to seal the sandcast. I can't recall where I go the liquid mas but it was a few years ago. I think a paint store...Sherwin Williams maybe.
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JRock doesn't let us know where he's located. I'm in Minnesota and keep my molds in the furnace room of the house....on top of the boiler actually. They're hot from the get-go when I want to inject and I do that in a cool garage setting. This includes the Essential molds. A real warm mold will likely not get the dimples or pock marks as he describes because there's little heating of the mold required where air will be released in the micro pores of the aluminum causing the issues. If he's in a cold climate like I am and injecting the mold cold he may be able to eliminate the problem by simply pre-heating the mold.
I don't know how many cnc molds I have but hot or cold or in between I have never seen the small pock marks in baits from them. The Essential molds I have, if I inject the molds cold or un-sealed.
Cold and un-sealed sandcast molds can create vapor [moisture] when +325 degree plastic is shot into the cavities. Between the suddenly heated air and possibly water vapor from the resultant condensation created as cold and hot meet, these pock marks can occur. That's why I have sealed my Essential molds that may get winter use and have made the pock marks. I find that sealing them will work fine but I also know that keeping those sand cast mold really warm prior to injecting does away with the pock marks too.
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Someone clever needs to come up with an app. Take a picture and have the info listed. Maybe jrock has done this?
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Those bubbles are not from the texture of the sand cast.
That's marks left by bubbles that are getting trapped in the "scallops" in the cavity design.
CNC molds that have those details (and any other details that can trap air) will trap air in the exact same way.
Painting/coating the interior WILL NOT solve this issue.
Shoot that mold S-L-O-W.
Myself, I use the injector to fill the sprue and runner BEFORE putting the tip of the injector into the sprue.
Once the hot plastic is running out of the mold, WHILE STILL PUSHING PLASTIC OUT OF THE INJECTOR, ease the tip of the injector into the sprue and keep slowly filling the mold until it's full.
This way, there is no air held inside the sprue when the injector is in the sprue.
Slowly fill the mold. Slowly.
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Cold and un-sealed sandcast molds can create vapor [moisture] when +325 degree plastic is shot into the cavities. Between the suddenly heated air and possibly water vapor from the resultant condensation created as cold and hot meet, these pock marks can occur.
If this were the case, we'd never be able to pour LEAD into these molds. Molten lead introduced to moisture gets EXPLOSIVE...INSTANTLY.
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JRock, you see how those BUBBLE MARKS are in a line, spanning along many of the "scallops" on that bait?
That's because the plastic is trapping small bubbles of air at the scallops as the plastic passes through the cavity.
Those things are going to happen.
Shoot that mold fast and the problem gets worse.
Shoot that mold SLOW and the problem will decrease.
I apologize for being the voice of opposition, yet again, but you've received some wrong information on this thread.
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👊.JIGS.👊
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Your theory may hold together down there in the swamps BK but up here I am right. No bad or wrong info was given. And I have a whole room full of cnc molds with very heavy texturing that never, no matter what the injection rate is, create these pock marks while the sand cast molds have unless they're handled differently and almost always the marks show up on baits done in a cold or un-sealed mold.
And as far as lead goes, the wee bit of vapor created will have an effect on the surface of hot soft plastic while the lead weighs much more in comparison to the plastic and it doesn't "give" like the surface of soft plastic. It takes very little vapor to make a pock mark in the plastic and certainly not enough to cause an explosion and most certainly won't have that effect with lead. We're not talking about water drops, we're referring to minute traces of moisture created by condensation during rapid heating creating minute traces of vapor. The porous aluminum in a sand cast mold can hold that invisible moisture and release it as it condenses when heated. Cnc molds are made with extruded aluminum, a wholly separate animal.
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Such great stuff here guys... ty!!! I live in MA. As fir the recipe book, it’s a custom database I built with FileMaker.
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J.... where do you do your injecting? Inside? In a garage? What weight of plastic [soft, medium, hard] and who makes it? How are you heating the plastic?
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You mean here, in the South, in South Louisiana, where moisture/humidity are higher than anywhere else in America? 🤣
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Your theory may hold together down there in the swamps BK but up here I am right. No bad or wrong info was given. And I have a whole room full of cnc molds with very heavy texturing that never, no matter what the injection rate is, create these pock marks while the sand cast molds have unless they're handled differently and almost always the marks show up on baits done in a cold or un-sealed mold.
(https://custombaits.com/gallery/315-221219065526.jpeg)
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Yup. Cold metal, hot plastic.....vapor created by sudden heating....nothing to do with your humidity. or my humidity. Everyone has humidity. I've injected very cold [15 degrees perhaps], dry, Essential molds [3" paddletails] and had the baits come out of the mold leaving dampness inside the cavities and on the baits. The second injection, after wiping the moisture off, made baits that had similar marks to what J was describing. Not lines of marks, just random. It was residual condensation being cooked out of the pores of the metal.
I've injected cold cnc molds too and had moisture form on the molds outside surfaces until the molds got hot enough to stop sweating.
I have cnc jig molds that will sweat like butchers on the outside until the molds get hot if I use them when the molds are cold. Its got nothing to do with anything other than understanding that the two types of metal are different. One is absolutely solid with zero micro pores while the other is full of the pores. The air inside those pores creates the problems inside the cavities until the molds are hot enough to have cooked the condensation out. Sand cast jig molds can show signs of the vapor affecting the jigs surface when the molds are cold. I keep all of my molds in a really warm environment and take them to the shop only when I am ready to cook plastic or the lead is hot. Some of the essential molds got painted before I started keeping the mold warm. Since then I have zero issues on other Essential molds that are kept warm.
You may have high humidity but we have humidity too and quite often as bad as your summertime humidity. We have the war between hot and cold where condensation is the #1 enemy. Sidewalks and driveways and paved roads sweat. And re-freeze. Siding on houses sweats. Pipes drip condensation in the summer. Move up here and you'll get a whole education in un-seen moisture, especially during the winter when hot and cold don't always get along. Its amazing that I can heat my lead and have zero issues with moisture as long as I pour it into a warm mold. If I cook a cold re-melt of a solid chunk of plastic or cook new but cold [20 degree or less] plastic, I get moisture issues. If everything is kept at room temperature, no issues. Its just a fact of life up here.
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That may or may not exist in Reality.
I can SEE what JRock's problem is, and it is not moisture.
I got this one, Mr. Tom.
Enjoy another cup of coffee.
Stay warm up there.
(https://custombaits.com/gallery/315-221219083524.jpeg)
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J.... where do you do your injecting? Inside? In a garage? What weight of plastic [soft, medium, hard] and who makes it? How are you heating the plastic?
None of these details are your problem, JRock.
I can name the best and worst plastics out there, but I won't 🤐
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Mr. Tom, if your theory had any weight, his problem would...
1 - Go away after the hot plastic warmed the mold.
2 - Not occur if the mold was warmed with a heat gun.
I can duplicate his problem at will.
I've seen it plenty times, and corrected it many times.
If moisture was his problem, he would likely get foaming on the skin of his baits because that's what molten plastic does when moisture is introduced.
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If you want to try something pretty cool on the ES beaver mold then paint only one side of it. It gives you a shinny top and dull bottom. Almost looks like a laminated pour. As far as painting the mold I just went to the auto parts store and bought enamel high heat engine paint. Don't buy the dull or satin finish. Then I just spray the whole mold twice and let dry. Then I take a nail and scrap the vents clean. Works great.
Love the cup Bones !
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Roger dat, Lamar! 👊😁
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I can duplicate his problem at will.
I've seen it plenty times, and corrected it many times.
If moisture was his problem, he would likely get foaming on the skin of his baits because that's what molten plastic does when moisture is introduced.
I can duplicate at will too using hot plastic and a cold mold. And I've offered how I corrected it. If you've seen it and corrected it many times, then tell him how this is done in YOUR camp, but don't tell him my fix is wrong when there may be more than one fix. And I have seen slightly "foamy plastic", as you call it, only in the cup coming from the microwave, never on the surface of a bait I have injected. I pull plastic into the injector from the bottom of the cup so anything on the surface of the cup's plastic is not getting inside my injector, foam or otherwise so maybe that's why you see it.
Like Jrock, I'm a lot closer to the tundra than you are and it just might be that since you don't very often deal with the kind of cold that we do you may not get the same issues as we might. You have a Merry Christmas Gary. BTW, I don't do caffeine.
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Shoot that mold S-L-O-W.
Slowly fill the mold. Slowly.
Agreed.......S...L...O...W. It works!
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So as a result of all your helpful feedback I found the following: number one, Shooting the beaver bug mold very very very slowly helped reduce the teardrop holes. Number two, I must have done something wrong with the VHT spray… I thought I followed the directions in skimpy’s video, but after applying two coats over 48 hours and letting dry another 24 hours, I shot the bait and it was covered In the black color from the spray. The black spray on the mold had also become wet and could be wiped off with the finger. Yikes.
While I prefer the look of the super smooth baits, I’m also not convinced They’ll catch fish any better than the Bates I pour with the rough ES series. Thanks again everyone. Grateful noob here. Merry Christmas!
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Glad you got the mold to start behaving. I tried the high temp paint on a few of my ES molds. Not a fan of it. My paint job lasted 20 or so rounds before it started to come off in small flakes on the baits. I’m guessing I probably went a little heavy on the coats. Anyway, I can live with the mat finish because the fish don’t mind it.
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Roger on'NAT, Lines! 😁😁😁
Awesome on'dat Slow Roll Success, JRock 👊
How 'bout some Plastisol Porn for us Soft Plastic Pervs? (Cover dem sprues, though)
Mr. Tom, I cook in a saucepan on an electric burner...I don't get foaming, unless I add freeze-dried, mortar-and-pestle-ground critters into the mix.
I hope All Yawl's Christmas is fantastic!
I'm just giving you a hard time, Mr. Tom 👊
I got nothin' but Love for you, Big Bro.
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Oh, and Mr. Tom......I FIXED HIS PROBLEM!
AAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAAA AAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
MERRY CHRISTMAS, SIR! 👊
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Like Jrock, I'm a lot closer to the tundra than you are and it just might be that since you don't very often deal with the kind of cold that we do you may not get the same issues as we might. You have a Merry Christmas Gary. BTW, I don't do caffeine.
Tundra? Oh I know some stuff about da Tundra, me.
We have Toyota dealerships all over de place down here in de Sout!