Custom Baits - Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Fishermanbt on 12/05/20 09:17 UTC
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Looking for some detailed guidance for preparing deer tails to tie some hair jigs. I’ve been watching to many of Small Jaw’s YouTube videos. I have 5 right now that appear close to being dry. I deboned them, washed with some dawn, scraped, pined out and covered with borax. Am I on the right track? I am hoping to gather up a few more to dye. Any insight to that other than following the rit dye instructions? I’ve seen some info on using kool aid to dye. Might give that a try too. Thanks for reading.
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This isn't much immediate help, but a really good book is "Dyeing and Bleaching Natural Fly-Tying Materials" by A.K. Best. I know Amazon carries them, but you can probably find it used.
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I've done tails using Ritt dye. It works on some colors but others don't do well even in the white areas. I just buy what I need any more. But honestly I don't tie the bucktails anymore. I know a guy with a commercial operation here in town and just give him a jingle if I need any. With the discounted price I get them at I can't make them for less. He needs plastics? He's got them. Nice trade-off.
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Borax is the real key unless you are storing the tails in the freezer... beetles will eat the hide if just using salt and you'll end up with bags/boxes of loose hair (I have first hand experience here).
I used to dye using Rit and boiling water (not just hot) as it opens the pores more, which is what helps the dye stay in place. I gave up dying about 10 years back and pretty much only use un-dyed tails when tying now... I think a natural white bucktail is generally unbeatable.
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Thanks for the responses. Sounds like I’m in the ballpark in how I’m doing it. Just stopped by our local butcher shop. Unfortunately the guy had been through already and pick up the hides last week. He did let me scavenge 3 that were dropped off today. Tried to pick up a bonus one along the road but the Mrs. was not having it.
As for price, this is much more cost effective than buying them at $5-8 a piece plus shipping even if I decide to dye them.
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Yeah, most ladies are put off when it comes to shopping along the road... it just seems untrustworthy to them. Years ago when I was working nights, I was often able to see the fresh "groceries" in the morning, and knowing it was fresh I had no problem putting it on my table and letting the four-legged scavengers' find another source for their rations.
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I've eaten my share of bumper bambi. As long as its very fresh and no blood shot or busted guts its fine but one does have to get it cold post haste.
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GO TO Dharma Trading for dyes and those types accessories. Deer tails are very greasy even though you can't see it so washing is a must. Soak for a couple days in Dawn and unscented fabric softener. Never let your water get hotter than showing a little steam. The first few steps you took are fine as long as you washed them well and rinsed completely. Now you can put them directly in the dye bath. water temperature 140 to 150 for 2 hrs. No need to dry because they will rehydrate during dying anyway and you will just have to pin and dry again (more about that in a moment) . After the dye bath rinse under cold water until the water runs clear. During washing rinsing or drying never wring the tails Press out excess moisture on old rags or paper towels. You can now dry and pin using the borax . I personally run mine in a warm bath of powdered alum left to stir and cool for three days before I pen them . But that is because I may need to store them a long time. often I will still use the borax to draw moister out of the skin. nothing like having a stinky moldy tail to ruin your nasal passages. Oh yea I like to blow dry the hair before I pin the tails better aeration for drying the skin . The Tails are fluffier afterwards.
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Good lesson Toadfrog. Will that also work for squirrel tails?
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Hey toad-
Do you find a difference in dye adherence with your prolonged dying times?
Though its been a few years, I recall the Rit packages listing 15-20 minutes of dye time for natural fiber (I used the powdered dye)... I generally bumped my time to 30 minutes, but found the most success when I used boiling water (simmering the dye pot on a turkey fryer).
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Good lesson Toadfrog. Will that also work for squirrel tails?
Works for all hair products.
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Hey toad-
Do you find a difference in dye adherence with your prolonged dying times?
Though its been a few years, I recall the Rit packages listing 15-20 minutes of dye time for natural fiber (I used the powdered dye)... I generally bumped my time to 30 minutes, but found the most success when I used boiling water (simmering the dye pot on a turkey fryer).
The lower temps and longer times are to insure the hair is dyed to the skin . Boiling temperatures damage the hair and can cause it to fall out, curl ect. I prefer to ere on the side of caution. I only use Rite dye on regular colors . You will get better neon colors with acid dyes. That presents a problem because you need to call the company to determine if the dye you order is the color you want. Over the years the nomenclature has changed neon Green is not the same as Flo. green chartuese . So beware. Been a long dang time since I looked at dyes.
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Thank you for the info toadfrog. Some things there I had not considered. I think I’m better off just keeping these tails natural and be happy with what I have. Maybe next year I can get all Picasso and dye some tails with supplies in hand and the insight you have provided. Already starting to see a delay in package delivery.
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Fishermanbt, what you've done for prepping the tails is fine, What toadfrog said about getting dyes & dyeing is spot on too. Rit Dyes can work, but they're not specifically formulated for protein based materials. Dharma Trading sells acid dyes, both their own brand, and Jacquard brand. It may depend on the exact colors you want which is a good choice, but last I bought dyes, there was not a lot of overlap in colors.
I've had the most success with dye bath temps in the 165 to 185 degree temp range and I've dyed many types of hair/fur and feathers.
The only thing I don't necessarily agree with is long soaks in a dye bath or to clean, as that can cause the hair to slip. However, spending time cleaning what you're dyeing will provide the best results as clean material will absorb dyes better than dirty, oily or greasy.
The last materials I dyed was some Fox & Coyote tails, which are a bit trickier than deer tails since the hides are much thinner. That's when you really have to pay attention to dye bath times. I've had the hide literally dissolve.
This was one of the tails I dyed, looking to get a "greenpumpkin" color for tying fly patterns and hair jigs. I mixed Dharma avocado with a Jacquard brown. As you can see, it's not all one color, and different shades because the base color was not all the same. White is a bit easier to dye over. I was however, happy with the result as I dyed several tails and got what I needed plus some other useful dyed olive green shades of hair.
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Thanks bigjim for that information and letting me know I’m on the right track. I pulled two tails this morning that seemed to be dried out quite well. They looked pretty nice after further inspection. I killed the trout and several flounder this past July on hair jigs/Ripper trailer at the Outer Banks. My tying skills are still at rookie status at best but I’m trying.
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You're welcome! Hair is always a good choice for such jigs. If you ever get into fly fishing, tying flies is similar to tying jigs, and they don't have to be display pieces to catch fish on them. You'll get better the more you tie.
This first photo is a jig that I tie for Stripers. There are similar around that use plastic baits, and they can be added to this jig, but I like the hair and so do the Stripers. I modified an inline trolling head to make this into a jig. Only make them in 3/4 & 1 ounce, and both have an 8/0 hook.
The second photo is a spinnerbait that I also tie for Stripers primarily, and with bucktail. Just something else that's different than most folks use. Others make them too. but not many use them for Stripers. These have 4/0 or 5/0 hooks in them. ;D
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My dad was an ardent bucktail walleye man his whole life, and I was as well until my 20s when I drifted into bass fishing. One year Dad tied a red, white and blue spinner-bait for me as a birthday joke and I caught a LOT of fish on it before finally losing it. Anyway, jigs don't have the same longevity as a spinner and therefore don't see nearly as many fish, but suffice it to say I was impressed how well the bucktail held up to the beating it took from all those fish.
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My dad was an ardent bucktail walleye man his whole life, and I was as well until my 20s when I drifted into bass fishing. One year Dad tied a red, white and blue spinner-bait for me as a birthday joke and I caught a LOT of fish on it before finally losing it. Anyway, jigs don't have the same longevity as a spinner and therefore don't see nearly as many fish, but suffice it to say I was impressed how well the bucktail held up to the beating it took from all those fish.
Good story! My Dad had friends on the Eastern Shore side of MD who had been waterman, and we went and fished with them many times. Small bucktails were the lure of choice for Striped Bass. I grew up fishing them mostly for fish in the Chesapeake Bay & tribs, but they'll catch fish anywhere.
Some of the first bucktail jigs that I ever tied, were reties, of jigs we used, and the hair had been chewed off. That was a good learning experience, and I've been tying them ever since. I've tied many flies too with bucktail.
I've even since obtained molds for the old head styles we used when I was a kid, even though some newer heads are a lot more popular. The older I get, the more I miss some of that from when I was a kid, so I guess I'm a bit nostalgic now.
The old stuff still catches fish! :D
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There are a lot of die hard buck tail guys out the and solid white seems to be the most popular color it just flat out catches fish of all kinds.
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There are a lot of die hard buck tail guys out the and solid white seems to be the most popular color it just flat out catches fish of all kinds.
Yes sir! That's the consensus among Striped Bass anglers too. The majority choose white most. Black, yellow, wine, and chartreuse are the other most popular colors, but possibly it doesn't matter what color is used, they'll still catch plenty of fish. I like a Root Beer color brown for hair jigs for SM bass, so bucktail is a versatile material. :)
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The older I get, the more I miss some of that from when I was a kid, so I guess I'm a bit nostalgic now.
You're in good company here... many of us have decades of fishing (and crafting) under our belts, and there is just something about going old school that puts even more 'pride on the line'.
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You're in good company here... many of us have decades of fishing (and crafting) under our belts, and there is just something about going old school that puts even more 'pride on the line'.
Yes sir! I am in great company here I believe, and fully understand what you're saying.
There's too many folks today who do not take much pride at all in what they do, and I miss that also, as that used to be normal when I was a kid, at least in my family. I know that many here may see that too as well. :(
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Just for giggles 3/32 or there about.
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Just for giggles 3/32 or there about.
Cute little fellow! ;D
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Looks like that minion character. :) I like it toadfrog.
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I clean them the same way as everyone but I do like to brush through them with an old hair brush to really get any dirt or grit out of the hair. I've gone to Fly Dye from Anglers Workshop. They are out of a lot of colors right now but they work very well and a little goes a long ways! http://www.anglersworkshop.com/Water-Fowl-Feathers/Anglers-Fly-Dyes (http://www.anglersworkshop.com/Water-Fowl-Feathers/Anglers-Fly-Dyes)
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I clean them the same way as everyone but I do like to brush through them with an old hair brush to really get any dirt or grit out of the hair. I've gone to Fly Dye from Anglers Workshop. They are out of a lot of colors right now but they work very well and a little goes a long ways! http://www.anglersworkshop.com/Water-Fowl-Feathers/Anglers-Fly-Dyes (http://www.anglersworkshop.com/Water-Fowl-Feathers/Anglers-Fly-Dyes)
I've read that Fly Dye was a good choice. I've stayed with Jacquard or Dharma's dyes, just because they've worked well for me.
When processing them from raw, or even if buying them packaged, cheap hair conditioner also can be used to aid in making the hair softer and to get anything out that might be in the hair. It does need to be rinsed well in cold water, or it tends to make them attract dirt that may be in the water. I've never had it cause a problem with dyed tails, but I guess that depends on what dyes might be used.
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Well, I pulled 6 of 8 tails off the drying boards and I’m very pleased with the results. I ended up dying a few with the Rit colors I had and they turned out good enough for my application. My daughter supervised me dying them so it was well worth the experiment. I can’t wait to dress up some of the manic mullet jigs I’ve been pouring to see how they work. I’m thinking the salty critters won’t stand a chance during the annual beach trip. Thanks again for all the great advice and guidance.
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From your photo it looks like you got a decent dark gray, wine, and a dark purple. I've had problems getting a nice deep black, but have ended up with some very nice gray shades in my attempts, which I like for backs when tying baitfish streamer flies. Some of the dark gray is fine as a black too, but when I want a deep jet black now, I just buy them already dyed.
I've found it takes a lot of dye for me to get a good black, and frankly for the prices of deer tails that I buy most, not worth the effort or cost to me.
That wine color you got there would be great for bucktails for Stripers!
Like you I don't get too concerned if colors don't turn out as I want, as anything I end up with I'll use.
I haven't tied any of those Manic Mullet heads yet with hair, but I have a couple on my desk now that I intend to do just that. I painted a few white, so that's what I'll be tying. Like you, I'm looking forward to trying them.
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You’re exactly right on the colors. I didn’t try black since I have still have two that I purchased. I looked at the website you had mentioned. I had no idea such a place existed. Since most of what I will be tying will be white I think I will just stick with what I have and buy a few chartreuse, pink and a few other fancy colors as needed. The fish I will be targeting in the sound at the beach will be stripes, trout and flukes. This past year they really enjoyed a white buck tail with a MF green earthworm color trailer.
Here’s a few manic mullet I poured ready to be dressed up as well as an ultra minnow I powder painted and tied
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Very nice! I bet those manic mullet jigs would make a good chatterbait also! Going to have to try those. Thanks for all the information on bucktails.
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You've got a sharp looking bucktail there, F-bt!