Custom Baits - Forum
Soft Plastic Bait Making => Soft Plastic and Plastic Baits - How To??? => Topic started by: BareKnuckleJigs on 09/14/12 07:18 UTC
-
Other than a microwave and a cup, what is the preferred method of heating plastic, consistently to 350 degrees, and adjustable to a lower temp for remelts...that is dependable and doesn't hurt the wallet? If it would be a Presto Pot, where do You obtain the mixing unit for it? Also, what Presto would You suggest, and where to get it? And how does it compare to the microwave, concerning yellowing? What is approximately the minimum useable amount of plastic that can be used...if You suggest a Presto?
-
I have two of the Pots. I tried to use one a couple of times with zero luck. It takes a long time for it to heat up. The plastic hardens in the spout. It burns. It yellows. It is hard to clean...pointless
-
You can get Preston pots a walmart. 30.00 steady temp. With no issues. Don't really no where to he the mixers though. I just use an aluminum rod. Or even try a hand held cake mixers.
-
X2 on Presto from Walmart. I use mine very little but works great.
Initially I set up drill press with paddle for stirrer. Then I bought one made for my pot. Works great but kinda pricey!
Jim
-
I have a Presto and had good luck with it. No burning, lower your temp with as you take out plastic. It's reduced the amount of stabilizer I use too. The minimum amount I have cooked is two cups. All the heaters on those very unit to unit. Mine heats up fairly fast. It does take some time to get used to using it compared to the microwave. There's always Lee pots, but I hear they're harder to clean than a presto.
-
I have two presto pots, from wally world. I use them for batches of 4 cups or more. I don't have stirring systems or anything like that. I use stainless welding rods bent into a loop. (Thanks Frank) It does take some time to get from raw plastic to injectable product, but when it does it lasts a long time. When I get to +/- 350 degrees I turn it down a touch. I also keep stirring a lot to keep it from scorching and to keep the flake up in the product and not laying on the bottom. When using the twinjector for lams, I take the bottom bar off the twinjector so it goes all the way to the bottom of the pot. I also prop up the pots on one side so the product is deepest on one side. Helps to prevent air entering the injectors. When I get near the bottom I reheat the sprues in the micro wave until melted, then pour it back in the pot and continue until I am out of plastic. Seems to work ok for me.
-
Thank Yawl, my Fellow Plastic Slingers! Been pondering other methods...
-
What are the other methods you are considering
-
Hadn't really put my finger on any true options, as most are shot down as soon as my brain gets to them, due to either cost or ineffectiveness. I hadn't pinpointed a worthy option so I started this Thread...
-
The presto pots are good but you do have to keep an eye on them for csorching etc. Speek to Jason and see what he can come up with. Dont know what he could make but bet it id be a gooden.
-
You can also use light bulbs to heat and keep warm. A good friend, Gary, uses this method. I will email him for some pictures of his set up.
Simple, very inexpensive and plastic stays warm for long periods of time without much yellowing.
Jim
-
I have been eyeing the pots as well, but due to lack of experience -read fear ;)- with them I have stayed on the Pyrex. I also have found a useful way to use a griddle (bought a nice deep one with a lid at Wal Mart for around $35 bucks)-
I heat my plastic in the micro to 350, shoot until out of molds to shoot, and put on the griddle with the lid on top of it (set to 300, which my griddle is actually about 310 at 300). Then I de-mold and lay out on the tray. Close up all molds, and when ready, I take the cup off the griddle, back in my microwave for 20 seconds, and boom ready to shoot again, repeat above. I use about 20 drops of heat stabilizer per cup of plastic, and I rarely have yellowed plastic this way. I will not use over a cup at a time to be extra careful on the yellowing. This is time consuming when doing large runs of course, but overall has less waste. I use the Twinjector as well, and I will say it is tough doing it this way- which is why I have been eyeballing presto pots. Sounds like we haev mixed reviews on them here. :) Anyway, this is just my little system and it works real well for me- and like I said- less waste!
The important things:
a) learn your microwave of course as they are all totally different.
b) learn your griddle if you do it this way. Mine is perfectly stable right in the middle, and the temps fluctuate on the sides..have to learn this by trial and error. Like I said above I set mine to 300 but it is actually about 310
-
Roger on all that, Fella's, thank Yawl. For the time bein', I'll be shooting for myself the expensive way, so I don't nasty-up anymore of my good plastisol. Praise GOD I'm still in the oilfield because I had retail-intentions...I'da had some mad now-ex-customers...because my system is flawed. I get fantastic results remelting store-boughts, so that's where my bait-stock will come from until I get my system nailed down. And so far, GOD Willing, it looks like I'll be staying out here 'til further Notice.
-
Did a bit of searching for a small Presto Pot, found a Presto 05471, and on Amazon for $33, it's on it's way. Searching through "product specs", the temp is adjustable from 275-375, of course I'll have to pair it with the thermometer. It's intended as a fryer but heat is heat. Low capacity at 1.1 quarts. Aluminum interior should work well with the 1/8"x1/2" Aluminum FlatBar that I will cut to length to stir with, which was $7 for a 4' piece.
Thank Yawl, my CCM Bro's!
Maybe this will end the madness and I can get to making some Bangin' Soft Plastic Ammunition, with Primo CCM Plastic. The GTB is gettin' twitchy already, can't wait to get Salty! Barkin' like a Salty DAWG buckin' on the chain!!
EDIT- I will definitely report back with this unit's performance.
-
I made my own you just have be acurate when installing the valve, you want it tapped as close to the element as possible this keeps the plastic hot I made my stirrer out of a rotisserie motor works great. Will dig up pics and post when I get a chance.
Added:
(http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q80/mrbilky/DSCF0156.jpg)
-
You will be very disapointed with that unit. It has a REAL hot spot at the back of the pot on the bottom. It will burn plastic not yellow but black burn. The pot is WAY to thin and when it heats back up the temp spikes and thus the burn. The presto has a pan type kettle which is thick. This prevents burning. The bottom is uneven and hard to clean. Frank
-
I can heat up less than 1 liter in Presto 05471?
-
Presto at Wally world 20 bucks. I just give the plastic a few stirs and then inject. Havent had any problems with yellowing or anything. I do 3 cups at a time. With the presto pot having non stick inside, clean up is fast. I only use mine when I am doing large batches. I have two pots. Other than that its micro all the way.
-
I can heat up less than 1 liter in Presto 05471?
Not saying it wont work but you have to watch it. A presto pot is much more forgiving.
(http://i45.tinypic.com/jhydr5.jpg)
The temp was set at 350 and when I was done this is what I found. Now its just parts. Both products are pretty much the same price too. Frank
-
I agree with Frank. The non coated Presto is not the way to go. I played with it and had the same results.
-
Roger on this bad report! I guess I should have asked 1st. I have some ideas to try to make it work better, because I fully intend to use this unit, and not spend any more money trying to get my system right.
-
My main "issue" with the popular, more standard Presto's is their higher capacities. I'm only making baits for personal use (now), and my largest mix is 14 ounces of plastic...that makes aLOT of baits. With Frank's Report, I'll dig into this unit and probably make a modification, or 2 or 3. Mostly this unit is for the initial cook, but will be used for remelts if it works well enough. As I've learned, and said before, that initial heating will make You or break You.
If the pot is thin, it can be shaped. If it has hot-spots, that's probably where the element is touching or too close to the pot, so I should be able to add some thick layers of 3-4 mil Aluminum to slow the heat conduction, to function the same as thick bottoms on pots/pans. When I get home this Thursday, my brain and hands are going to tackle this potential Problem Child, put the belt on it's butt and make it kneel in the corner, 'cuz I'M the Boss! HaHaaa! ..."If You will not work, You shall not eat"... No Disassemble!
-
Don't know if it's worth the effort, but you could set the pot at 300-320, and pour cooked plastic from a pyrex into it that was cooked in a micro. Can it still burn probably.??
-
I firmly believe that the microwave I've been using is most of the problem I've been having. The 1st microwave I was using didn't have the issues but it now barely works. I'm wanting to use this Presto 05471 as my main heat source, since the temp is adjustable and it'll hold the temp instead of the heating patterns/fluctuations of a microwave.
Once I got a thermometer I mixed up a 14 oz. batch and started heating. Once the plastic started getting upto workable-temp it started yellowing, according to the thermometer it was yellowing at 330...that thermometer also takes awhile to get upto temp. I've been having nothing but problems since I started using this microwave. That 1st microwave I was using, I could melt and remelt and remelt with zero yellowing. I've been frustrated, to put it lightly.
That's why I got the little Presto, so I could slowly raise and hold the temp, while mixing so everything was cooked right, initially...keeping the thermometer in it, steady mixing...then bring the temp down to just-shootable once the mix is cooked correctly. I'm certain the microwave is most of the problem. One thing I am NOT worried about, is "too many steps" or "not worth the effort" because I'm making baits for myself and time is barely an issue because I have 1-2 weeks off after every hitch. What my main focus is, is cooking the plastic completely on the 1st heating (so it doesn't turn cloudy later on), zero yellowing/burning, and getting a Top Shelf finished product, which is defined BY no yellowing and cooked completely.
My mind has been grinding away since Franks post. The 1st thing I'm going to try before I tear into the unit is start at a low temp and slowly increase while stirring. If that doesn't work (if it burns my plastic), I'm going Surgical. That unit may look like a Beat-Up R2D2 by the time I'm done, but it's gonna cook some plastic.
-
There's going to be some changes in my shop while I'm home next time, and I'm going to take notes on the 2 microwaves. I THINK the older unit that I 1st used is higher wattage, and a different brand. The ONLY money I'd be willing to spend would be on a suitable microwave, and that isn't happening soon.
-
It all sound like you have it figured out. Here is what I found out when I got those. The temp setting has no factor in this. Because of the thin pot when the thermostat tells the heating element to turn on it goes FULL bore trying to get the pot back up to temp and with a thin pot it burns the plastic at the back. If you want to fix it I think a thicker bottom would make a great start. It will also be way hotter at the bottom so it is up to you to keep it mixed and not leave it to long. So it is not a no brainer it will take alot of effort from you to keep it going on the right track. Just like a microwave does. Turning yellow will happen as it stays heated for a period of time so don't think it is not going to happen at all. Some yellow sooner but all yellow in time. I wish I had this info when I first got these units but don't think it would have changed my decision to just get the larger presto. Just my 2Ct's worth. Frank
-
Frank...what pots would you recommend? BTW, I did visit Jacobs' website. I also heard from others that he, like Jason, puts out a good product. Thanks for sticking up for him.
-
Thank You Mr. Frank!
If the element is mainly in the bottom then that will simplify the modification. As long as I can get the plastic cooked right, and maybe get the main portion of the plastic shot with no yellowing, then that'll be exactly what I'm looking for. As long as the scraps haven't yellowed (I'll try to work fast) then they're right for remelting. I can remelt much cooler than 350, and work it in small shots in the microwave. Even if all I used the 05471 for is the initial cook, if it'll make that happen (as long as I do my part) without yellowing, I'm cookin' with GREASE!
I'm thinkin', 2 small pieces of 1/16" thick Diamond/Tread Plate on the element, between the element and bowl, Treads together to leave the 2 pieces of plate slightly separated, so the Treads only would conduct heat directly. I could slow it down more by adding more...
-
I have four model 6000 presto pots. In time I will make a set of purpose built pots for doing this job. Nice ones. Frank
-
I'm going to use this method as my 1st attempt, but this idea adds another aspect of possible danger (although, it's no more dangerous than cooking food), so I removed it from Open Forum. I'll do this at my own "risk", out of sight, out of mind.
-
The non stick presto works great for larger batches. I use it anytime I'm cooking more than 3 cups. It's worth every extra penny it costs over the cheaper thinner pots. For smaller batches I use Lodge Logic cast iron pouring pots on 1100 watt hot plates. The pots cost me $18 each if I remember right. They hold about 1 cup. The hot plates cost around $20 each as well. The cast pots heat evenly and hold heat well. I can hold my plastic at the desired temp as long as I need to without scorching. I have never scorched plastic in these pots. Not once. I turned Andrew on to the Lodge cast pots last spring. Ask him for his opinion on them. Personally,I think you guys that are microwaving are making things much harder than they need to be. The Presto pots and the cast pouring pots give you much better control over temperature and heating rate. Dont skimp on your equipment. Thicker heavier pots that heat evenly yield MUCH better results than cheaper thinner pots.
-
Roger on'nat, TBilly, thank You Sir. Cooking in an actual pot has crossed my mind a time or 2. Reading Your post here, that's my next move.
In much thinking, and wanting to try something before opening the little Presto, I planned to "set" the Pyrex into the top of the Presto, then came the Kamikaze part that I'm trying to avoid posting. Once I made my decision that this would add too much negative possibility, I decided on what seems to be a more finely-adjustable Electric Single Burner and a 1 quart thick pot, $45 total, and I'll try to return the Presto unopened.
If this works right at all, I'll salvage what I can from the 2 microwaves and bring the rest to the scrap area of the dump...which will open up my workbench quite a bit...and that's never a bad thing.
Thank You, Jason and Family, for Your awesome Company, Products and Service. I'll always favor CCM, hands down...no matter what anyone says...yep, I'm biased.
-
Your most welcome. I got my hot plates at Wally World. They're GE and they have a solid steel surface instead of the coil style heating elements. I don't know if that makes a difference but, I think they might heat more evenly than the coil style. I don't know if that's true or not. I do know they work well. As I said in my first post they're 1100 watt. I wouldn't buy one with lower wattage. I have to run mine at about 75% power to maintain around 350. An IR thermometer is a valuable tool as well. If you don't have one I'd reccommend getting one. I love my little cast iron pots. They're worth every penny. That said, the heavier cast aluminum pots should work well too. That's what my presto is made of. Good luck. I hope you find a setup that works well for you.
-
I was hoping to find a burner with a solid top but most of those I looked at had "low, medium, high" settings which made me feel like it had 3 pre-set temps so I avoided them, and avoided the coil-types with that same specified feature.
The unit that's coming is only 1,000 watt, I think it'll work. It's adjustment seems more finely-adjustable than the 3-step adjustment. It's a Better Chef IM-301SB. The pot is a stainless one with a thick bottom, so there will likely be a learning curve, and I hope the bottom of the sides don't burn plastic...it's a Cuisinart Contour 419-14. If I need to go to a cast iron pot to get a good result, I can do that.
-
Sounds like the burner you ordered should work fine. You definitely don't want one with only 3 settings. There'll be a little learning curve but you'll figure it out in a few sessions. With the setup I have I simply crank the burner to high until my plastic gets up to temp. Then back it off to the sweetspot that'll hold it at around 340-350. Atmospheric conditions make a difference. I have to run my heatsource a little hotter when it's warm and humid than I do when it's cold and dry. I'd definitely recommend bringing your plastic up to temp slowly at first. Set your burner in the medium high range. Say 2/3-3/4 power and go from there. You'll be able to heat it faster once you get your settings figured out.
With its thick bottom and thinner sides the pot you ordered sounds similar to the Presto pot. I tried the cheap, thin little pouring pots the first time around. I don't know how you could cook plastic in those and NOT scorch it. I immediately went clear to the other end of the spectrum with the cast iron. I have no experience with anything in between other than my cast aluminum Presto pot. The presto works well so I would assume similar pots would too. Keep us posted.
Good luck and God bless, Tim.
-
I followed Tim's advice on the Cast Iron pots (see link below) and it works great! A+ idea.
I bought a two burner stove at WalMart and I preheat the pots. I nuke 8oz of plastic in the microwave (to start) and fill up the pots and work out of the pots. As I use up plastic...I nuke more at 4 oz per nuke...and add it to the pots. Once the cast iron heats up you can hold plastic for a surprisingly long time! I bought a two burner stove so I can use my twin injector.
The pot that Tim recommended was the Lodge Logic Pre-Seasoned Cast-Iron 14-Ounce Melting Pot and at $13.24 you can't beat the price! Since they are already "pre-seasoned"...it's really easy to scrap cooled plastic out of them (use a plastic scraper designed for Cast Iron pots so you don't scratch them). Lodge pots are a LOT thicker than cheap pots (like at WalMart) and once they are "up to temp" they can really hold in the heat.
It was cold with rain and snow showers here all day on Sunday..so I made baits all day long. I was using just one pot on the burner...and heated my plastic up in 4oz batches and I had a non stop process going for over 4 hrs. Nuke for 2 1/4 minutes...while injecting out of the pot. Replace plastic...repeat..repeat ... I like 4oz because it seems to be the most consistent in time and temp. for my microwave. I burn 2oz...and it takes too long for 8 oz with inconsistent temps.
I made up some "lids" from a piece of scrap aluminum...and that really helps keep the heat in if you have a delay.
http://www.amazon.com/Lodge-Pre-Seasoned-Cast-Iron-14-Ounce-Melting/dp/B0002CX9FE/ref=sr_1_24?ie=UTF8&qid=1352738558&sr=8-24&keywords=Lodge+Logic
Scraper: http://www.amazon.com/Lodge-Durable-Polycarbonate-Scrapers-Black/dp/B0039UU9UO/ref=pd_bxgy_k_img_z
-
Hey Andy. Glad to see you weigh in on this one. Goes to show there's more than one way to skin a cat. This thread has me motivated. I picked up a rusty 2qt cast iron pot with a cast lid and nice wooden handle for $3 at a yard sale a while back. I'm gonna go wire wheel it and season it in the oven. It might become my primary pot for injection runs. I'll try it out later this week. I just bought a 7" carrot mold fom Jason. That and the skinny carrot mold you swapped me should keep me busy for a little while. Though I probably won't be getting too creative with them. This past year I've kinda fallen into the Forest Wood train of thought when it comes to worm colors. I can catch fish on any color worm. Just as long as it's black. ;D
-
Thank Yawl, Andy and T-Billy! I have my burner, just waiting on the pot...hopefully it comes in today. I got the Plastisol ITCH!!!