Custom Baits - Forum
Soft Plastic Bait Making => Soft Plastic and Plastic Baits - How To??? => Topic started by: t-billy on 11/28/12 13:29 UTC
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I started messing around with some MF micro-bubbles yesterday for the first time in an effort to make some highly buoyant carrots. It took a couple tries to get it right but, I'm happy with 1.5 tbs per cup of plastic. MF recommends 1 tbs per cup on the container.
First I tried 1 tbs in 1/2 cup since I was looking for a bait with some serious flotation. I wanted a bait that would stand my shaky head jigs up no matter how they landed. These baits succeeded in doing that but, they were a little too stiff with that many bubbles added.
Next, I tried 1/2 tbs in 1/2 cup. That's the ratio MF recommends. The baits had the same flexability as baits with no additives but, weren't as buoyant as I wanted. So...I split the difference. I heated up a cup of plastic and added 1.5 tbs of micro-bubbles. Winner winner chicken dinner! With this ratio a 6" skinny carrot will stand up even my 1/2oz 4/0 shakey head jigs and, they still have the same (or very close to the same) flexability as my carrots with no additive. No matter wich way I push them over, as soon as I take my finger off they stand right up and wiggle. They'll also stand a 1/4oz football jighead with a 3/0 hook up on its nose.
While I was finishing up this cup of plastic I made a few 7" carrots and a 4" Mad Dad. Both of those big baits stand straight up on a 3/4 oz jig. It's impossible to get the jig to lay down or roll on its side. It swims along parrallel to the bottom like it normally would but, as soon as you stop it the craw stands right up in a defensive posture. I can't wait to get out and see how that big 7" floating carrot acts on a texas rig.
I'm pretty excited about this stuff. Shakey head carrots and craws that stand strait up every time. Topwater carrots. Topwater wacky worms. Dropshot baits that stand straight out from the hook. I didn't think I had many baits that I needed to pour this winter. I do now. The wife will be thrilled. 8)
All that said. Let me pass on the same warning Andy gave to me when I mentioned using this stuff in his thread. It's sound advice. Micro-bubbles are a serious inhalation hazard. DO NOT use this stuff without wearing a respirator. Only use it in a well ventilated area. This stuff is super fine and will hang in the air for quite a while. Just taking the lid off the jar makes a little cloud of the stuff. However if you take the proper safety precautions, you can make some pretty cool baits with it.
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OK where do I get MF micro-bubbles?
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mf website
http://www.pouryourownworms.com/ (http://www.pouryourownworms.com/)
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t- billy, nice write-up and those baits sound fantastic. I mean no offense by this, just my opinion, but just thinking about what those microbubbles can do to the membranes in my nostrils, throat, any anywhere else they get into makes me cringe. :o ...let alone the fact they are so tiny they puff out and can be on who knows what surfaces in the shop to be kicked up later...a respirator can only go so far.
Again, no offense meant, and I love what you have come up with s far as buoyancy goes! I am holding out for Jason to come up with a liquid alternative, similar to the HD sinking additive, only positively buoyant, that can float a 5/0 hook.
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I used micro ballons from Alumalite I think. I had to add a ton (4 heaping tablespoons per 4 oz) to float a 3.5" toad with a 1/0 ewg hook. I also had to add softener and they tore very easily. Stuff was very white and opaque so alot of color needed to be added.
I guess the MF stuff is different.
I do make tails for my trick vorms with it and that works well on a shakey head.
....Bill
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No offense taken Superharmonix. I'm with ya. If I knew of a liquid alternative that's what I'd be using. Hmm...I wonder if they can be stirred into raw plastisol and left there without breaking down? If so they would have to be handled far less often. You'd just have to mix the plastisol well before each use. I'll look into it.
Wow. 4 tbs per cup is a pile. There must be quite a bit of difference between the two products. The baits with the MF bubbles do tear easier than straight plastic but, not as easily as my sticks made with salt.
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Here's a link to the MSDS for 3M Glass bubbles....probably what you are using.
http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/mediawebserver?mwsId=SSSSSuUn_zu8l00x482vMx_Glv70k17zHvu9lxtD7SSSSSS--
Size <100 microns (which means it is a significant inhalation hazard and will pass into the lungs.
Eye Contact:
Mechanical eye irritation: Signs/symptoms may include pain, redness, tearing and corneal abrasion.
Skin Contact:
Mechanical Skin irritation: Signs/symptoms may include abrasion, redness, pain, and itching.
Inhalation:
Respiratory Tract Irritation: Signs/symptoms may include cough, sneezing, nasal discharge,
headache, hoarseness, and nose and
throat pain.
Personally, I would not take the chance of using it. I bought some from MF when I first started...but when I realized what it was I disposed of it.
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Thanks for the info Andy. I contacted MF about adding it to raw plastisol and storing it that way. I'll post their response after I hear back from them. Hopefully it's possible to go about it that way. That would greatly reduce the number of times it needs to be handled. Since they're actually made of glass I doubt that plastisol will affect them. I'll wait to mix any up until I hear from mf anyway. I've been wrong once or twice before. ;D I'm not really that concerned about exposure. As long as I wear a respirator when handling it and clean up any spills immediately I don't feel it poses much risk. Nonetheless the less of it that gets airborne the better.
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When I use micro bolloons I take them outside so I dont get them all over my shop or on me or in me, wear a good mask, then put them in a small jar, and mix them with worm oil into a paste. Put the lid on and shake to pick up any loose ones on the inside of jar then mix again. It works great to keep them safe to use,and is always ready to use. Just remember to shake the jar well before each use, they will separate after setting.
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Jeff from MF got back with me today. He said mixing the bubbles into plastic and storing it that way SHOULDN'T be a problem. He did suggest trying a small quantity first. He said he's considered doing the same thing but, hasn't tried it. He also sent me the MSDS for them. It's the same as the one Andy provided exept these mico-bubbles are <200 microns.
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So it might be possible to drill a small hole in lid and slowly fill the container with ccm plastic. That would definitely help the airborne hazard aspect. With the micro-spheres being glass; it would seem the likelyhood of product degradation would be small. Thanks for the information. Please give an update if you run a test.
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This is not dangerous. But abuse is not necessary.http://youtu.be/u_14zxEuf4I
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super, maybe if algore could speak to the baits one pours (maybe just play audio of one of his speeches on "gorebal warming" in a room with baits) I believe they, the carrots, would, just "float to the top"...like a dead fish!!!
http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/images/blpic-gorecheaties.htm
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Igor, maybe Boris and Natasha (of moose and squirrel fame) need to pay u a visit... 8)
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I'm gonna pour some plastisol into the micro-bubble container this weekend. More for ease of use than anything. The buoyant little buggers are kind of a pain to stir in. I don't forsee any problems as far as the bubbles degrading. Time will tell. Jason shipped me 2.5 gallons of CCM this morning. There are lots of floating baits in my near future. I'll post results next week. Mid 50's in the buckeye state all weekend. No time for making baits. I've got deer to process and saugeye to catch and fillet. Hillbilly surf&turf. :P YUM!!!
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need to pay u a visit...
Ruble USSR?;D
How much? 8)
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Thanks for the video. Has anyone tried to see how much is needed in a 4.5 Inch Bigfoot Toad to float a larger swim bait hook? A possible alternative to CCM's floating foam.
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When I use micro bolloons I take them outside so I dont get them all over my shop or on me or in me, wear a good mask, then put them in a small jar, and mix them with worm oil into a paste. Put the lid on and shake to pick up any loose ones on the inside of jar then mix again. It works great to keep them safe to use,and is always ready to use. Just remember to shake the jar well before each use, they will separate after setting.
Wubbawurm NAILED it. Thank you Sir. I shot two batches of floating 6" skinny carrots today. The first batch I mixed the micro-bubbles and worm oil 50/50. It worked great. The two mix into a creamy easy to use liquid. Same results when I mixed the bubbles with CCM plastisol, except the baits made with the plastisol mix were noticeably stiffer. I had settled on 1 1/2 tbs of microbubbles per cup of plastic, so I mixed 1 1/2 tbs of bubbles with the same amount of worm oil and added it to a cup of plastic. The worm oil counteracts the stiffening effect of the bubbles. I compared the baits I made to a sample 6" skinny carrot Jason had sent me in a sample pack. The baits made with the worm oil mix feel the same as Jasons bait. The plastisol mix baits are a little stiffer. I definitely think this is the way to go when using microbubbles.
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Do you think adding the worm oil into the mix will effect the baits in a negative way? I have only used pure CCM plastisol and either CCM softener, hardener or stabilizer.
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The worm oil will just make them softer vs. mixing it with plastic which has PVC in it. They will tear easier, but it shouldn't be any different than if you were using salt. Getting multiple fish off a bait is good, but if adding softener is what it takes to get bit I would gladly swap baits for fish all day long.
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The baits I made with the microbubble/worm oil mix tear slightly easier than straight plastic, but it's not a big difference. The microbubbles definitely don't have as big a negative affect on durability as salt. Probably due to their much smaller size. Also take into consideration the fact that I'm using 50% more than the recommended amount. It's entirely up to the user how much they want to use. How buoyant a bait do you want? You could use 1/2 the amount I'm using and still have a pretty buoyant bait. Using that amount you probably wouldn't notice much if any difference in durability vs. straight plastic. I'm VERY happy with the results I'm getting. I now have carrots and craws that will stand straight up off the bottom and wiggle away every time they land on a jighead or Texas rig. I'm also looking forward to fishing topwater carrots next summer. You know, now that I think about it.....A floating Birch/Bucky/Berry Bug might make a pretty sweet frog fished like a popper. Hmmm? Here we go again. ;D
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I have used the Micro bubbles all year and sold 3.5" texas tube 10-1 they make a great tube for texas rigging or shaky head with a 4" carrot rigged dropped shot 12-18 inches above it.
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Since CCM Medium floats, you only need to offset the weight of your hook.
I use Betts Betts® Carolina Floater for worms ....they are available at Bass Pro Shops.
For bigger baits I make the floats by spinning down a cylinder of foam, or plugs cut from shower shoes (beach sandals) using the cutters and shaping tools from Sleazy Steve's Soggy Bottom Fly Shop (really!!)
Check out all the colors of foam!
http://www.jvlnet.com/~swinters/
I've made bass bugs for fly fishing for over 25 years using Beach Sandals before you could find the foam blocks.
If you want a big pop...use your Dremel tool and a #911 Grinding Stone to hollow out the front.
(I've also made them from the cork from good Scotch! )
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Andy...One of my best days ever fly fishing was on Clear Lake using hand tied big bass bugs made out of old beach shoes and some gaudy looking chicken feathers. I trimmed the rubber with gate cutters so you can imagine how pretty they weren't. I called those flies Flip Flop Floaters.
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I caught 2 eyes 3.7 and 4.9 lbs, 2 musky 29" and 32" and a 2lb largemouth yesterday with the same floating carrot on a shakeyhead. Durability is definitely not an issue. It is about time to spin it 180 on the screw lock and skin hook the opposite side though.
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Glad it worked out for you T-Billy! It works great on craws also.
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Thanks Wubba. I shot a bunch of floating Mad Dads this afternoon. I can't wait to try em out later this week. I just bought 100 1/3 oz splitshot from a fella on ebay. I'm gonna try crimping a splitshot 1/2" or so above the knot on Texas rigged Floating Carrots and Mad Dads. They should have an action similar to a shakeyhead jig, but they'll dance around more on the pause. They'll definitely come through cover better than a shakey jig.
The micro bubbles will definitely throw your colors off. That's not neccesarily a bad thing for a guy like me though. Since I'm not selling them, I'm not trying to match a particular color exactly. I don't believe the fish are nearly as picky about colors as we are. Give 'em something green, black or baitfish colored and they'll eat it, if ya wiggle it right. I like the way they lightened up my green pumpkin. On the other hand I don't care for the grey smokey tint they gave my black baits. I had to add quite a bit more black to counteract the effect. I also found when using that much colorant small glitter will show up better than larger glitter. God Bless, and Merry Christmas to all!!!----Tim.
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Man....am I happy I don't target grass carp.
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Bye Bye Shakeyheads. The splitshot setup works GREAT. I rigged a floating Skinny Carrot Texas style on a 4/0 Skipgap hook. I put a drop of superglue on the line about an inch above the hook to prevent slipping and pinched on a splitshot. I couldn't get the fish to cooperate in the falling 41 degree water but, I pulled/shook this rig through some nasty brushpiles without hanging up. I'm impressed. I know I couldn't bring a jig through that stuff. The bait swings down and swims along horizontally while your pulling it,then stands straight up and wiggles around on the pause. This rig will work great at any depth using different bullet weights above the splitshot. Add a couple beads between the bullet sinker and the splitshot and it'll rattle. I think it's going to replace both the shakeyhead and the Carolina rig in my lineup. Yippee!!!
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I can see a floating carrot as a real killer on a Carolina rig. Getting the bait floating / suspended can really increase your catch rates when bait is suspended off the bottom.
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I can see a floating carrot as a real killer on a Carolina rig. Getting the bait floating / suspended can really increase your catch rates when bait is suspended off the bottom.
I'll be sure and try it. A floating carrot wacky carolina rigged could be a real killer. These highly buoyant baits definitely add a new dimension to the arsenal. Come on spring!!!
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If your water isn't where you can walk on it ( :D ); this Carolina technique, worked slower, will work in the winter.
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If I could find the bass it probably would!! I've been catching lots of saugeye & white bass and I've either caught or been bitten off by at least one musky each of my last 5 trips. I had a GIANT bite me off last Friday. But the bass have been in hiding. I think they're suspended offshore feeding on shad. The state draws down all the lakes in my area in winter for flood control. They should be down to winter pool by next week. The bite should pick up once the water level quits falling. The water was still 41 degrees this past weekend. That's unheard of this time of year in Ohio.