Custom Baits - Forum
Soft Plastic Bait Making => Soft Plastic and Plastic Baits - How To??? => Topic started by: ghostbaits on 04/04/11 15:15 UTC
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Just an update from an experience I had last week at a local pond. I was fishing a 3" CCM frog on a 2/0 frog hook. Actually caught a bed fish (buck) on the frog and was back to fishing topwater again.
Got slammed and I set the hook only to loose the fish a few seconds later. Checked my set up to see my hook had bent out pretty good....
Lesson learned!!!!!!!! If you are going to fish the smaller frog on braid, either upgrade hook to 3/0 and be easy. I still think you will loose fish to the hook pulling out on braid. I switched to my other rod with 17lb big game and proceeded to hammer the dinks without issue.
Jim
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I also use a 3.0 hook, the 2.0 will work, but I found my hookup ratio a lot higher with the 3.0. I don't use a special hook, I just use the 28 degree 3.0 hook we started carrying especially for the frog (and spring lock), and run it between the legs vs. through the bait. Still pretty weedless but the trade-off is a much higher hookup.
I was fishing with a retired pro a couple years ago and he showed me a way to help prevent bent hooks, snapped knots, etc on the hook set, loosen your drag a little. It will allow the rod and reel to absorb the bone jarring gorilla hook set that naturally occurs when fishing top water. :P
He also emphasized waiting to let the fish really take it, then to reel down on the fish vs. setting the hook on slack line. Just a couple additional tips when using braid...
Tight - but not broken lines!
Jason
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Well the slop is SUPER THICK here so we have to be 100% weedless. The vegitation is tough also so the larger hook is a must. Braid has zero stretch so all the force is on that hook really. I may have to look at a double hook for the smaller frogs.
I caught 32 lbs of fish in a tx 2 years ago all on topwater frogs. 7.8 was the big fish... What a day! Won the tx and won big bass $$$$. For one day, I was on top!!! LOL!!!
I am serious when I hit my topwater fish, drop the rod when they bite, count to 2, feel the weight and SLAM!!!!!! Almost like punchin' mats!!!!!
Jim
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I love me some frog action! 7.8 top water :o
Had to be awesome!!!
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Funny part of that is there was a boat right next to me talking about a tourney they were pre-fishing for. I cast and the water opens up like a bowling ball was dropped in. Fish swims right at me. I use a 7:1 reel when frog fishing so the whiole thing happened in mere seconds. Fish got to baot, I reached in and lipped and threw here in the bottom of the boat. It was a "Did that all just happen moment?".
I knew it was my day as that happened at 6:55am..... I lost one bigger that got me wrapped on a floating island. Another boat was close and they estimated over 10.
Went through 20+ frogs but what a day! They were eating like sharks!!! Best part was, some of the "top guns" didn't even catch a fish!!!! It was hard for me to fit my BIG HEAD in the truck after weigh-in!!! LOL!!!
Jim
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Agreed! With braid having no stretch its easier to rip the hook out when you set the hook. Good post Ghost! I will lock this away in the memory bank when I fish the Potomac!
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the only way i fish frogs is braid and hookups are outstanding!
rarely miss a fish.. maybe one or two out of 10 hits
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Can you guys post a pic of how you hook the frogs. Trying to get a picture of what Jason was talking about when he said "between the legs". I usually just rig my soft baits like I'm texas rigging a senko, with an EWG Gammy hook. Frogs are thicker though. Guess I need to buy more hooks. LOL
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Hi Mike,
Here is a pic of 2 options (both are weedless):
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-lTvpxac1WwA/TezIriijWpI/AAAAAAAABaQ/jPyOibQ8w28/s640/2011-06-06%25252007.30.28.jpg)
The pic on the top is a 4" Croaker using a 28 degree 5.0 EWG jig hook and screw lock. The hook runs between the legs and then is skin hooked on the back of the frog. I've left it exposed so you can see it. The pro to this is your hookup ratio is extremely high. The con is the hook can come loose in weeds and you can only skin hook it so many times before you need a new bait.
The second pic is a 3.5" Croaker using a TroKar 4.0 EWG worm hook. You rig it like a normal Texas Rig and run the hook through the frog at the thinnest point in it's rear. The pro is your frog will last a long time and is more weedless than option 1. The con is it takes a little more skill to rig it perfect and my experience has been it can be a little harder to hookup if not rigged just right.
We sell everything you need for either setup http://www.caneycreekmolds.com/Hooks-and-Eyes_c_28.html (http://www.caneycreekmolds.com/Hooks-and-Eyes_c_28.html). Our prices are very aggressive (if you can find them cheaper anywhere let me know).
As far as sizing goes:
Between the legs: 3" Croaker - 3.0 EWG Jig Hook, 3.5" Croaker - 4.0 EWG Jig Hook, 4" Croaker - 5.0 EWG Jig Hook
Texas Rig: 3" Croaker - 2.0 EWG Jig Hook, 3.5" Croaker - 3.0 TroKar EWG Hook, 4" Croaker - 4.0 TroKar EWG Hook
As far as braid bending hooks, it can definitely happen. However, TroKar hooks are very strong and I believe will help greatly in this regard. Another trick that I learned Jig fishing with an ex-pro a couple years ago was to loosen your drag slightly. I really struggled with this, but he went on to explain throughout the day how a rod, reel, line, knot and hook all need to work together. Any one of these can be a week point if not setup to work as one. On a gorilla hook set your drag should give to prevent your rod or line from breaking. Your drag should still be tight enough that it doesn't give after the hook set unless it is a big fish making a run, but your reel is designed to give at a certain pressure, your rod is made to absorb a certain amount of pressure, etc... When they all work as one you can land really big fish without using a saltwater rig.
End of the day everyone has to do what works for them. None of us fish the same, use the same gear, etc. We need to adapt our style to our gear, fishing conditions and size of fish.
Hopefully this helps.
Tight lines!
Jason
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Awesome picture and explanation. Since I am looking at getting the 3.5 frogs, I really appreciate you telling the size hooks that fit for each rigging style.
How do thosse 4/0 jig hooks work with the 5" Wutz-its?
Also, just to be clear, the bottom rigging style is with the Trokar hooks and the top frog is rigged with the Mustad hook?
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Awesome picture and explanation. Since I am looking at getting the 3.5 frogs, I really appreciate you telling the size hooks that fit for each rigging style.
How do thosse 4/0 jig hooks work with the 5" Wutz-its?
Also, just to be clear, the bottom rigging style is with the Trokar hooks and the top frog is rigged with the Mustad hook?
They would work, but I would use the 5.0. Maybe Jim could chime in on what he's using / recommending on the 5" Wutz-It.
I will say this, the jig hooks are very good, but the TroKar are awesome (I use them whenever possible - Wutz-It, Creatures, Craws, Worms..). If you don't order any I will put one in so you can check it out. It is seriously hard core. I'm not trying to "sell" them. You will see once you fish one.
Correct on the rigging. For the frog you are really better off with the jig hook (top picture). There is another option with this as well, you could go with the 3.0 jig hook / screw lock, and rig the front like it is in the top pic, but rig the back like the lower picture (through the frog).
The good news is the hooks are pretty inexpensive and you can try both for a few extra bucks.
Jason
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Sorry... Been asleep... LOL!!!
For the 5" Wutz-It, use any 4/0 or 5/0 EWG hook. From my experience, you will want the extra wide gap hook for the hook set. If you use a stright sahnk hook, the plastic gets in the way of the hookpoint to many times, folds up in there.
Also, I stay away from the screw in hooks with the Wutz-Its as one fish will equal one bait. The nose will rip off and you will be digging for another bait. Rigged with a 5/0 EWG, I have been able to catch 8 fish without replacing my bait.
Jim
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For the Wutz-its and frogs, what type of plastic are you using? Soft, Regular or what? Also when you cover the eyes-- regular or hard plastic? Thanks for all the info on the hooks and riggings. Im going to make up a special box with those hooks and lures only to carry in the boat.
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The Croakers are easier to pour in regular / medium and hold up better. You can dip in the same, but I really prefer the hard for the dip (just the body, do not dip the legs). This will give the fish a squishy bait in it's mouth that is still durable. The fish like it so well I personally have boated a fish and never put a hook in it. Others have told me they have had the same experience.
Maybe we could get a PETA endorsement on it??? ;D
Tight lines!
Jason
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For the Wutz-Its, I use medium for the baits and soft for the dip. Seems to work fine and I am sure medium would work as well.
Soft is easier to work with and doesn't harden as fast so you can dip more. Also seems to yellow less on the re-heats so less of that tint on the baits. Pretty hard to tell on the dip if the plastic yellows though.
Jim
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Thanks for the info Ghost. 4/0 and 5/0 trokar EWG hooks ordered. :D
Also wondering, if the EWG hooks work better overall in your experience, have you used the Gammy Superline hooks? they seem to have an even wider gap that may work better in the thicker baits. I've never needed to use one myself yet, so i was hoping someone would have an opinion one way or the other.
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I prefer them for flipping/punching heavy mats and when frogging. I guess when I use heavy braid (65lb and up), I reach for my Superline EWG hooks.
They are a lot tougher to bend out or break when you have a hard hookset and lots of vegitation.
Highly recommend them. Wally World carries them by me so you can try out a pack or 2 if you are close.
Jim
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The Croakers are easier to pour in regular / medium and hold up better. You can dip in the same, but I really prefer the hard for the dip (just the body, do not dip the legs). This will give the fish a squishy bait in it's mouth that is still durable. The fish like it so well I personally have boated a fish and never put a hook in it. Others have told me they have had the same experience.
Maybe we could get a PETA endorsement on it??? ;D
Tight lines!
Jason
What brand of plastic were you using at the time of this post? Everybody's plastic is different. And have you switched with the new CC clear plastic?
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At the time I was probably referring to MF. I now use CC Clear, it's close to MF in firmness (overall just a tad firmer). I've been experimenting with the CC Regular for dipping and it works really well. With MF I wasn't as crazy about dipping with regular.
I have some Calhouns and MF on hand. I use both for testing molds or to help someone who is having a problem and is using one of them. For all my own pours, samples, and prototyping I use CC Clear.
Jason