Custom Baits - Forum
Soft Plastic Bait Making => Color Cook Book => Topic started by: ctom on 02/24/14 08:17 UTC
-
I've played this color game with crappies, sunfish all across Minnesota and Wisconsin and walleye/sauger in the Mississippi River from St. Paul to Iowa. Water color/clarity have been specific drivers in color choice. So has the weather, water temperature, water depth, fish mood and an on-going list of essentials in determining the right color for the time I'm on the water. Something that has always puzzled me is how one specie of fish, say the black crappie, can appear to have a strong color preference in Minnesota and not even notice it 100 miles away in a Wisconsin water almost identical to the Minnesota water.
Does anyone have a theory on why specific regions' fish can have color preferences so far different when the physical elements affecting the water remain nearly identical?
I'm not a scientist but I do a lot of journaling of my fishing time. One thing I have noticed locally on a daily basis is that a color working great at pre-sun rise into mid morning can simply fade in effectiveness as the morning wears on. I've seen purples do well until 10 AM and then simply stop getting bit, while changing to a blue will fire things right up again. I've seen how clouds versus clear skies shift certain color specifics. I've seen where a shade line on a river will make all the difference in color choice depending on whether I am fishing in the shaded or the sunlit side of that line.
I fished a Wisconsin Crappie tournament with a friend a few years ago. Took second in it. My buddy lives about 100 miles north of Minneapolis/St. Paul on the eastern side of Minnesota . The tournament was held about 60 miles due east into Wisconsin. The lake the tourney was held on was identical in every aspect to a lake found less than five miles from my friend's house in Minnesota so we did a day there prior to the tourney. We found colors that worked like a million bucks there the day before and decided that we should start with that pattern, but when the fishing at the contest got started it didn't take me long to figure out that a serious change was going to have to happen. My friend was stubborn and banked on a change in his hit pattern as the day woke up and got brighter. Since we were fishing for our own fish, I got in color change mode real quick. I also began putting fish in my well, fish that taped nice lengths. At the weigh station I had 3 ounces under the leader with my 10 fish tourney limit. My friend, in his stubbornness, did not make the top 20. This event was one of those learning exercises for me, but it also opened up this question that I haven't found an answer for.
So...why will a color work in one place but not in another place a short distance away when the water seems the same?
-
I really don't know for sure but maybe someone else had been sore lipping them with the same colors around that lake. But I really don't know ????
@bullfroglures
-
The only thing I can think of is the way the light interacts with particles in the water, the lakes may seem to be the same clarity but have different chemical and organic makeup that could change the way certain wave lengths are absorbed. I would guess that water in different regions would be different just like the soil, native plants ect.
-
A lot depends on the food source in the lake. As we know shad and crawfish differ in color depending on the species. We all have seen shad with back colors from black to blue to green; even pink. This has something to do with it. I have heard that smallmouth on a shad feed will not feed on crawfish and visa versa. So much that will never completely understand it.
-
Pickwick and Bay Springs Lake are connected by a canal that is thirty miles long. Both lakes are clear and deep and have basically the same bait fish. The crappie on Pickwick like bright colored jigs where the crappie on Bay like the natural colors. Fish with bright colors on Bay and you come home with an empty cooler.
-
Tom, We get the same thing happening on the same lake up here. I think it depends on what exactly they are feeding on at that specific spot, the amount of food there,which can control competition within schools of fish, making them more or less aggressive. I have had this conversation with many anglers, no one has come up with a solid answer. Changing colors and size seems to be a great way to start figuring them out. Good Luck! PS. water clarity I'm sure will affect your colors
-
The biggest color change I see is water color. When I go north of Minnesota up into Canada the water is a root beer color. You go to more eastern Ontario it's more of a green. The great lakes are more of a blue green. Each of those areas the crawfish are different colors. And then they also change from spring to fall. Maybe starting out as a green in the spring and turning more brown/orange in the fall. So I believe the color of the water changes the color of the weeds and the bait that hides in it. A big example would be a perch. They even call them yellow and green perch. They look totally different in color. The green perch comes from that dark Canadian water were as the yellow comes from the clear great lakes. I do know as a jig fisherman when I go to a new lake I'll always find a weed bed and try to match my jig as close to the color of the weeds as I can. That's always a good starting point.
-
Thanks for the replies.
Just to be clear, I have a panfish confidence color [purple/chartreuse tail] that is on at least one of the rods I carry when I venture out. I'll carry between 4 and six rods on open water and another color that is a given to be tied on is my bluegill/chartreuse tail.
I am also a very "fast" angler....I work thru colors and color changes and I use a wide variety of retrieves and speeds to determine effectiveness very quickly. I generally start with the purple/chartreuse and then switch to the bluegill/chartreuse regardless of where I am or the water color/conditions. I go thru color and profile switches quickly and if fish are not cooperating I move to a different location on the water and start the whole process over until I find my active fish. Thru the course of that particular trip I'll go back to spots that didn't show fish and re-work them if I think that fish should be there. Different potions of lakes and rivers "wake up" differently and what was dead at 7:30 am might be a bonanza at noon.
On Saturday my grandson stopped by with his best friend and his best friends dad. The dad is a walleye club member that is looking to get into crappies a bit more and wanted to look at baits. The conversation went from baits to practice in a blink. One aspect was that of why two lakes, literally across a road from each other and in fact connected by a culvert, would have such a difference in baits crappies would hit on during the same time period. I thought I answered the question as well as I could but felt the guy left scratching his head. So I thought I'd try to pull some ideas from more heads.
As mentioned the dad is a walleye guy. He mentioned fishing plastics for walleyes and that his go-to color was fire-tiger. After showing him some of the natural looking baits that I have made and used in the last 2 years with very good success, his comment was flat out that walleyes won't hit colors that are not bright. Especially on the Mississippi River where his club's tourneys are held much of the time. The guy about suck the air out of the house when he was told that the baits I just showed him right out of my pail were used exclusively on the Mississippi River in precisely that same pools as where he referred to. He looked closer at my pail and couldn't find much for "bright" colors in it. All he could say was "really?".
After reading the replies here and after meeting this other "dad", I wonder how many people limit their own fishing success wearing blinders? I'm beginning to think the problem is broader than I thought.
-
I've had an almost identical experience with a bass tournament years ago where we searched fish out the day before and came into a pretty good stash of them. The next day at blast off we thought we were going to take first, but this was not to be the case. I stayed fishing the same spot with the same bait way too long... I never even came close to being a threat in that tournament. I don't think the fish moved, but in hind sight, I think I conditioned them what not to bite the previous day.
Other than potentially conditioning the fish, did you notice a difference in light from the practice day to the tournament day?... or maybe a difference in surface disturbance? I believe both can make a difference, and regardless of depth I'm fishing, I generally match my presentation to the conditions found at the surface - noisy vs. quiet & dark vs. light.
-
Are you basing your observations on what we can see, what if it is on what we can not see? UV light? while the clarity or lack of is based on visible light could the lakes differ in the amount of UV light that penetrates.
Also as others have mentioned maybe it is bait preference, I have fished flathead cats for a long time, and one thing that I have ran across is shallow cats are very dark while cats that have spent more time in deeper water have been more yellow, I have also seen the same with bass and gills, fish from deeper water are pale while shallow fish are vibrant in color
-
To be specific Brent, question was asked based on plastic colors that were made before the uv enhancers became popular. I have a very clear understanding of how color and water color/clarity work with and against each other and was looking to see if other considerations were missed in understanding how two very closely colored lakes with near identical physical characteristics could have such a disparity in color preference in the same specie of fish. I am certain that uv enhancement would change things now, but the baits at that time did not have it.
-
Ctom,
I'm with you on the UV additives, but there is a natural UV light already present in ALL waters, what I was trying to explain, was same bait, same color, same appearing water color could also be different, chemical make up of the water could filter more of the natural UV light, different day different intensity, these are things that you and I could not see.
I guess the same theory why on one sunny day you can get sun burned but the next day you would not, In my thoughts the difference in the intensity could also change the appearance of the bait,
-
I guess the same theory why on one sunny day you can get sun burned but the next day you would not, In my thoughts the difference in the intensity could also change the appearance of the bait,
if there is actually uv reflective stuff in the water then this would make sense. The uv index can change dramatically day to day without any seemingly physical changes we see. Humidity and concentration of ozone gases are things we can't witness very well but are definitely heavy factors. surface color (say there are a few more ripples or wind current in one lake reflection will change but could also apply to the bottom of the lake) and altitude also effect the uv index rating.
So if the uv reflection still plays a part before the uv additives then this makes sense. Even though the lakes are very close proximity, the bottoms and altitude are more than likely different.
I'm no expert by any means but this interests me! I like all the info being posted here. It's useful in learning what the fish see depending on the water. Not just thinking they're being grumpy :p
@bullfroglures
-
You're right about natural uv Brent. Time of day will also show an increase or decrease in the intensity of natural uv light too...with sun directly overhead allowing for maximum penetration. The sun's angle on the water will also affect how colors appear to the fish as well, regardless of uv influence.
Your comment on natural uv might well be the difference in the case I presented and merits noting. Your remark about the chemical make-up of the water is something to consider as well. Mineral content of the water might be very close between two seemingly identical lakes located close to each other, but if one is heavy on calcium from a limestone lake bed but both waters are stained nearly perfectly identical nobody would be the wiser; however, the water with the higher calcium levels will filter light entirely different from the other. Lots of little nuances will pop up regarding color and how they are perceived by the fish and tow what degree uv light will be allowed in.
Jamth....you are right about getting good info out. Nobody has all the answers and the more is offered in areas like this the more we anglers can make ourselves better at it. I just wish I had a lot more education in the science areas of fishing. I never get tired of learning about light and color and how one influences the other.
-
In streams it depends on the watershead. Different watersheads have different dominant specis of bait fish and craws. In fact, the same stream will have different dominant species at different points along the stream. Factors that would affect the dominant local species would be current (fast - slow - no) water clarity, bottom type eg gravel, mud, pland life, deph etc.
Also life cycle and food preferences of various bait/minnow species. Some like to hang in riffles othes quiet back water pools. Some species are top water feeders, others mid water and still others bottom feeders.
Probabily similar in lakes.
Most states have a book titled "Fishes of xyz state". Find a copy and study the time and life cycles of the various species for your locality. You can google for photo's of various minnow species to use as a model.
State conservation departments have likely done studies and test nettings of all the streams in your state and can often tell you what bait species is dominante on pretty much a mile by mile basis sort of like a canoe float guide.
-
I think there are so many factors that it is almost impossible to nail it down to a clear cut formula. Species tendencies and level of competition from other fish play a very large role I think. For example a small pond with lots of small bass that are competing for food you will usually catch more on bright easily seen colors no matter what the conditions. Maybe this is because they see the other fish going for the bait at the same time they are and it is an eat or starve scenario. Then in a similar sized pond with abundant forage where there are very few bass they will get very picky about color and bait. I read a study a while back that showed fish population does not relate to fishing success. It is theorized that catch rates in lakes are based more on prey availability than gamefish population. The more food there is the less likely the fish are to bite.
So the reason why some colors work or fail on any given day may be affected by factors like... are the fish are even hungry or will you need to get a reaction strike, are they part of a school or just scattered loners, and are there massive amounts of prey around that you need your bait to stand out from, or do you want to match the hatch. There are so many factors that it is easy to think yourself into circles. Also as was mentioned earlier different spots on the lake will like different colors and presentations. A school of bass on a point busting a school of shad will want something different than the a bass on a stump up on the bank.
For me there are three decisions when choosing a color, Light or dark, flash or no flash, natural earthy hue or unnatural fluorescent hue.
making color changes based on these 3 variables helps me to feel like I know why im changing colors and what other colors might work as well or better than what im currently using.
I do love to discuss it because when you find that one awesome color of the moment and nothing else is working its an amazing thing. It seems to me though that we will never know for sure why it happens that way sometimes.