Custom Baits - Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Jason on 08/18/11 12:54 UTC
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This is a general post about bubbles and foam in plastic. It's not Caney Creek Crystal Clear specific - please don't read more in to this than hopefully a helpful topic.
While some of us have been dealing with high temps and humidity for a while now, Summer and humidity have pretty much set in everywhere by now. With humidity, comes moisture.
Humidity can cause moisture in your plastic, colorant, scents, cups, etc., even if your bottles have caps on them.
I personally have experienced this in my cups. At the end of the day I would normally leave a little hot plastic in my cups and clean it up in the morning before I started pouring again. I don't know if it was humidity, or condensation from the hot cup cooling off, but I got bubbles in my first batch of the day. I cleaned my cups really well and nuked them for 30 seconds - problem gone. I have to do this daily unless I clean my cups at night and leave them upside down.
I have not had problems with my plastic or colorant, knock on wood. If you use CC plastic it should be pretty bullet proof about getting moisture in it as it never allows air / moisture in the container - but this is only one possible source.
If you are encountering bubbles or foam and have found a source and possible solution please share it as others can benefit as well.
Tight lines!
Jason
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I will jump in and say I have experienced micro bubbles being formed from two ways.
One, bringing a cup from inside (in the ac) to the workshop outside (warmer for sure) and seeing the condensation causing bubbles.
Second one has been pretty bad. I am getting loads of microbubbles being formed after I have cooked my CCM/LC/M-F plastic clear and then added colorant. Specifically my bottles of LC colorant. They have a small cap vs a screw on cap and I am sure the moisture is getting in that way.
If you get microbubbles or bubbles in any way, be sure to notice when you get them as it can be related to things other than the plastisol (like salt, colorant, scent) as well.
Good topic!!!!
Jim
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Jim,
I would like to see a new/different cap for the colorant bottle out there. One to keep moisture out and two to eliminate the mess they make.
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Jim,
I would like to see a new/different cap for the colorant bottle out there. One to keep moisture out and two to eliminate the mess they make.
If there is a cap that is better than the Yorker style we use now let me know. It's easy enough to change and we aren't far off from needing to order more.
Jason
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I am getting microbubbles are gently stirring with a metal spoon. I wipe the spoon down to make sure there is no moisture on the surface and it happens every time.
Any thoughts?
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I am getting microbubbles are gently stirring with a metal spoon. I wipe the spoon down to make sure there is no moisture on the surface and it happens every time.
Any thoughts?
Try something round like a welding rod. Nothing with a flat side. Learned that from mixing epoxy. Frank
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If there is a cap that is better than the Yorker style we use now let me know. It's easy enough to change and we aren't far off from needing to order more.
Jason
Do you have a choice to buy with or without a hole in the tip of the cap? I would go for the closed tip and let the consumer poke whatever size hole they need. I say this because my "white colorant" pours out even though it looks like a pin hole. Can I request to include the caps on the store front? Surely I'm not the only one who needs a replacement cap or two.
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I can add the caps to the store.
Jason
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I don't know what can be done to remedy the condensation problem. The weather here in Ohio has been crazy this winter. The night before last was 18 degrees and we got 4" of snow. Today was 50 with thunderstorms. Been that way since December. On the warmer days I have lots of condensation in my plastisol jugs and it bubbles like crazy when first heated. The condensation is worse when it's cool and damp than it is in the heat of summer. Especially with salted baits. Its not too serious a problem for me as I cook on hotplates or my presto pot and just skim the bubbles off the top. Also I'm just making worms and craws for myself and a couple buddies. If I were trying to make clear swimbaits or something of the sort it would be giving me fits for sure. Even after skimming there is still some micro bubbles. After I use up the Chemionics I have left I'm gonna give Jasons plastic a try. I think packaging it like he did in the bag/boxes is a great idea.
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You won't believe the difference in your baits and how easy it is to use CCM plastisol.
Jim
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I will second what Ghostbaits said about CCM plastic.
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Ditto- Jason really did a lot of detective and leg work in getting the Caney Creek Crystal Clear developed- and just like everything else he sells- he wouldn't let it out the door if it weren't EXACTLY the way he knows we need it.
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I'm having issues with this as well. I use ccm plastisol and have until now worked around the issue but why not ask the experts. I use the isi basics silicone mixing cups rather then Pyrex for safety. I'm wondering if that could play a part? I heat in a new microwave that I'm pretty sure is between 800-1000 watts. I use about ten drops of stabilizer per 4 once mix. I get a lot of micro bubbles. I'm wondering if leaving plastic in my cups could be the issue. I notice when I clean them out before use they have a slightly oily substance at the bottom. Could that be from moisture overnight?
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412,
That oily substance on the bottom, according to my observations, may very well be uncooked plastic. I've been noticing alot of things, myself, and I think I've been "neglecting" the stirring issue/aspect. I use Pyrex...4 oz., 16 oz., 32 oz., so I've been watching close with my stirring. I've had a TON of issues with baits turning milky/rancid/smelly...and according to Jason, it's usually caused by either too much natural oils or plastic that's not cooked enough (not that cloudy-ing is Your issue). I mixed up some Black/Blue a few weeks ago, and a few weeks later they were milky/stinky...these had no scent in/on them.
I've noticed WELL after my plastic is "cooked" and I'm injecting, many times there is a very thin film of milky, uncooked plastic on the sides of the glass and sometimes a little on the bottom. After I pull the leftovers out of the cup, I notice a little white on the sides and bottom, sometimes...this residue stays oily. My last 2 very small batches were 3.5 oz.s each, and I started paying CLOSE attention to my stirring, and "scraping" the thin white film from the sides and bottom once my plastic gets to Temp. So Far, So Good. Now when I pull the leftovers out of the cup, it's as clean as can be.
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The issues with the microbubbles is usually moisture. That hot plastic will pull moisture/humidity out of the air. The only real way I've "gotten rid of" bubbles is to work them out...plastic to Temp, I'll use my stirring tool to move the bubbles to the side of the cup (just because I'm impatient and it gives me something to do), and let the lower/deeper bubbles come to the surface...they will come to the top, given enough time and in to-temp (close to Temp, NOT over-temp) plastic that's thin enough to let the bubbles rise. This will usually take a few minutes, but You WILL get to nice, clean plastic. You may have to bring it back to Temp as the plastic cools and You're waiting for the bubbles to rise...I'll reheat it 10-20 seconds at a time.
Remember how a microwave works, and those molecules are in motion so that plastic will usually continue to heat a little, shortly after You pull it out the microwave. You can get those bubbles out.
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I would suggest you heat up some plastic without the stabilizer and see if you still get the bubbles.
Moisture is coming from somewhere.
We have had a VERY hot and humid summer and those pesky microbubbles are back for me also. What I do is (I think it was CTom who posted this suggestion)...
1. Completely wipe out my cup before each session.
2. Heat the cup in the micro for about 15 seconds to drive off any additional moisture. Wipe again (I use paper towels to make sure the towels are dry!)
3. I then run the micro for 30 seconds with NOTHING in it, to help dry that air out.
The thing I noticed was that I often get micro bubbles at the beginning of a work session and they seem to lessen or go away after I work for awhile which indicates to me that my microwave was the source of the bubbles. I have often wondered if the fan air is humid enough to cause the bubbles. To test that theory I heated up some plastic in dry cups on a burner...and guess what....no microbubbles. The ONLY variable was the microwave! I really think the humid air being blown into the microwave by the fan is the problem.
Also make sure you don't leave any bottles ....of anything open any longer than you have to. I have a bad habit of leaving the cap off which could be allowing humid air into the colorant, stabilizer etc.
The other thing I have been doing is running the dehumidifier at full tilt for an hour or so before I work. That seems to make a BIG difference.
FYI...I live in Minnesota and during the winter...when the gas furnace is running all the time...our humidity in the house goes very...very low! And guess what....no microbubbles!
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I'm in Pittsburgh PA and to put it into perspective we will be in the 70's for humidity so I'm sure that's a huge part of the issue. I will try those few tricks and work through it with this sticky weather. Thanks as always for the support. It really makes a new hobby easier to grasp with such great help.
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I wash and dry all my cups every single night. Stinks doing all 20 of them but it completely takes the issue of the cup being part of the problem out of the equation. Having a science background and spending hundreds of hours in the laboratory, clean glassware is a must to me.
I would get in the habit of scrubbing them well before use so you know that is not influencing your process. With the rain every night (100% humidity) and the 95+ degree temps every day, humidity is a force to be dealt with in South GA.
I HATE BUBBLES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D :D :D
Jim