Custom Baits - Forum
Jigs, Spinnerbaits and Sinkers => Bass Jigs => Topic started by: jl3140 on 07/26/14 11:16 UTC
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Well I just got back from commercial fishing in Alaska for the past month and it was a really good year, lots of fish and good prices. Now I'm getting into lead pouring. I shipped back 60 lbs of lead line from old gill nets so I have more than enough lead to get started. What is a good bottom pour lead pot to start out with? Is the Lee Magnum Melter Do-it sells a good starter? Also, is there any other equipment besides a mold and the hooks/weed guards/whatever else is needed for the mold? I'll be getting a different respirator for pouring lead also. Which one do you all recommend?
Also, how do you paint them? I'll be pouring bass jigs to start with, then add panfish jigs in too. And how do you know which weed guard to get for the mold? I'm starting off with the weedless football jig
Thanks in advance and I'm sure more questions will come up as I get started.
Josh
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The Lee is a great beginner pot but if you are going to get serious, do the RCBS unit and learn the curve just once. I don't bottom pour anything anymore, much preferring the ladle pouring method but I have both a simple Lee magnum melter hot pot along with the Lee 10 pound bottom pour. If I were to set up to bottom pour I'd have to order the RCBS unit....way few issues with dripping but I think in time all bottom pouring units develop drip issues.
I'd spend the little extra and get the better unit right off.
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Ctom: what do you use to melt the lead if you are just ladle pouring?
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When I got started I took CTom's advice and just bought a small ladle and the Lee 4lb melting pot and I'm glad I did. Super easy to use...and I've made enough baits to last a couple lifetimes!
http://www.barlowstackle.com/Lee-4-Lb-Lead-Melting-PotBR110-Volt-Model-P349C62.aspx
Powder painting is the way to go...and there are super good "how to" videos at:
http://www.tjstackle.com/
Their fluid bed is really nice and well priced.
Another absolute must is their Jig Clamps for curing the paint in a toaster oven (see their video for info!)
I cure mine at 250 degrees for 20 minutes and they are super tough! Just make sure you get the paint out of the eyes of the bait before you cure. Otherwise, heat a needle red hot and poke it through the paint.
Andy
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Josh pm me your email. I'll send you fluid bed plans.
I don't have any problems with my
Bottom pour. Some dripping but nothing major. Learn to flux your lead. I use candle wax. But it will flame up. I repeat will flame up. Brings all the junk to the top. There is a very good read on lead fluxing on TU.
I personal don't like the ladle. But I grew up using a bottom pour.
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Ctom: what do you use to melt the lead if you are just ladle pouring?
I have a 20 pound Lee Magnum melter. If I am doing ingots or downrigger balls I use a propane 3-burner stove out in the garage. With the ladle and Magnum melter I can do jigs to 2 ounces, but I only cast a few up to 3/4 so this system works great for me.
Years ago I bought a spin-caster. A friend also owned one and had the equipment for making the vulcanized rubber molds. I'd pay for the raw rubber discs and he'd help laying out the webbing and head placements for curing. Saved some huge bucks doing this. I had four wheels for every size of jig I made and after loading hooks I could spin up 400 1/16 heads in about 30 seconds. They had such minimal sprues that half would fall off just separating the two mold halves. I still have the spin caster but sold the molds for it. I'd part company with that machine for a couple hundred bucks if someone wanted to come here to get it.
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Awesome! Thanks for the answers
Justin: I just shot you a pm
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Welcome home, Josh.
If you plan on doing a lot of pouring I'd go with the RCBS. It's pretty expensive, but it's a workhorse and a joy to use. I burned up two Lee pots before getting it.
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"I burned up two Lee pots"....
Leave it to Denny. Heating lead in one, cooking dinner in the other. lol
I've put a couple smaller lee pots in the trash myself and have two 10 pound bottom pouring units in the cupboard that leak like crazy. One I put a bolt in permanent like and will use that one when I am casting an alloy that is used in sinkers. Other-wise they are dust catchers.
Figure out what you plan to cast, then determine what size of furnace you'll need. If I ever need to replace my big pot I am heading for the RCBS like Denny did.
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I'd spend the little extra and get the better unit right off.
The RCBS is actually a lot more...
I'm more than fine with my Lee 10# bottom pour that I use 90+ percent of the time and I also have a cast iron skillet that is custom modified for big pours and rapid lead melting. I messed with ladle pouring years back and it was just too tedious for me. We all have our favored methods... do a search on YouTube to see what you think will fit your needs and temperament.
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I use a Lee bottom pour pot IV. It will drip, but mine stops if I tap the plunger with the handle of a screwdriver. If it continuals to drip the pot needs to be cleaned. For fluxing the lead Frankford Cleancast is the best I've found; it will smoke; but will not flame. Also spray you molds with Frankford Casting Release before using the. (Some people just smoke them with a candle, but I like the release spray) Now for the big tip, get a Do-it catalog and turn to page 86, everything I mentioned is on these two pages, for sale by Do-it. And if you have any questions about any of these products.. just call Do-it!
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"Now for the big tip, get a Do-it catalog and turn to page 86, everything I mentioned is on these two pages, for sale by Do-it. And if you have any questions about any of these products.. just call Do-it!"
Ta Daaaaa!
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I didn't finish my sentence! the release spray is used for coating the inside of your mold. Makes the lead run in super fast so you get a complete pour.
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I recall Fatman saying he used his Lee bottom pour for twenty plus years before getting another. He may not cast 400 at a time, but I'm betting he does his fair share.
I just recently started fluxing and that alone makes a huge difference on the dripping... but even before, I was always less frustrated fixing the dripping on occasion than ladle pouring all the time.
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I use a Lee's melting pot and have no trouble at all with it. I personally do not do any of the above. No flex and no spray. Never have. Junk will float to the top and I clean it out with a spoon. Use soft lead and you'll always get a full pour. My first pot I bought at age 19 and replaced it age 53 and cost me around 60 bucks to do so. To be honest they haven't changed much over the years. But I only make lures for myself. So if your not planning on big production then don't spend the big dollars for the big units. So now and then I have to clean it out or it drips and I have to stick a needle in the hole. Big deal. I can pour a hundred jigs easily in an hour. For me that's a years worth. So JMO why pay the big bucks for a high dollar pourer ? The one thing not mentioned here is ventilation. You need great ventilation. Lead poisoning is nasty stuff.
When it comes to painting again IMO powder painting is the way to go. It's one tough hard finish. I feel that the reason I make my own baits is because I want something a little different then what everyone else is tossing and I want the best bait I can get. I also think it's a pride thing. I think you'll find that most guys and gals that make their own baits have a ton of pride in their work. Personally I don't think the bass care.
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The one thing not mentioned here is ventilation. You need great ventilation. Lead poisoning is nasty stuff.
I plan on pouring in a big steel shed outside, but I'm still going to wear a respirator of some sort. What kind do you all recommend?
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I plan on pouring in a big steel shed outside, but I'm still going to wear a respirator of some sort. What kind do you all recommend?
All you need is a 3M mask, the reason being is lead doesn't vaporize until it hits 967 degrees, and it melts at 621 degrees, the numbers are close, not exact. Anyway, get either a good immersion probe to check temp of an infra red thermo detector, this will let you monitor temp of the lead so it doesn't vaporize. One of the simplest things to remember is to start with a hot mold, I put the mold I'm going to use on top of the pot while the lead melts, that way by the time the lead melts the mold is good and hot. I have a Lee 4lb precision pot for ladle pouring and a Lee IV bottom pour, the reason is I have some molds that just don't pour well with the bottom pour but a ladle seems to work, the same deal for spinnerbaits, the wire gets in the way so much easier to do the ladle. As mentioned the RCBS is the best furnace made but LEE stands behind their product, if your pot burns up they will refurbish it for 1/2 the price of a new one and when you get it back it will be all but new. The LEE IV will drip but all it takes is a turn with a screwdriver and it is fine.
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Awesome! Thanks for the information guys
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Well I have ordered all the things I will need. Pictures will hopefully be posted soon :)
Again, thank you for all the answers to the questions
Josh
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I use LEE Pro Pots IV and used the 1/2 price program to replace them with brand new ones the old ones were 24 and 27 yrs old!! but as the guys have already said think about how far/deep into it you want to get and base your melter needs on that.
Plenty of video's on powder painting and where to get good deals on it - Rosy's used to have a jig tyers assortment for a decent price but I haven't seen it lately.
One thing above all else just be safe!!!! Eye protection, long pants and long sleeves and good heavy shoes and gloves. This is a great hobby and you can make things the way you want but it's not worth it if you get hurt.
Welcome to the madness!!!!!!!!!!
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Eye protection, long pants and long sleeves and good heavy shoes and gloves. This is a great hobby and you can make things the way you want but it's not worth it if you get hurt.
I have a tennis shoe that's lead plated somewhere in the closet as a reminder to this. When I spilled that pot I looked like I was doing a cross between an Irish Jig and Hot Footin. It amazing how fast a guy can get a shoe off without untying the laces when the shoe is 600 degrees.
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I have a tennis shoe that's lead plated somewhere in the closet as a reminder to this. When I spilled that pot I looked like I was doing a cross between an Irish Jig and Hot Footin. It amazing how fast a guy can get a shoe off without untying the laces when the shoe is 600 degrees.
For a guy that loves taking pictures. You have got a lot of stories with none... either that or you so full of doo doo this is your only way to get rid of it.....
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I've met Tom in person, Bug,and I have known him for several years. Granted, he's not much to look at, but I believe most of what he says. With that said, I too would like to see that lead covered sneaker, but I'd like to have seen it when it was still smokin'.
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One other item that comes in handy with a bottom pour unit is a low profile ingot mold like the Lee one that Do-It carries. Placing that below the spout - it will pick up drips and occasional overpour, making it easier to put back into the pot. you can also put the "sprues" in it and trickle them back into the pot, reducing splashback and keeping your hands a few more inches away from the hot lead. (Learned this trick from Jerry V !!!)
As always - an ounce of prevention.............. ..
As for Ctom's credibility, I've always known him to be a straight shooter! I wouldn't be so concerned about the sight of Ctom's shoes - I would be more worried about the smell! :o ;)
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"I wouldn't be so concerned about the sight of Ctom's shoes - I would be more worried about the smell!" Tommy S
Hey, that helps me locate them in the dark.
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Thanks for the safety information and tips. I will definitely take all the precautions.
That's a great tip with the ingot mold Tommy S! I hadn't even thought of that. Now I have to find something to put under it to catch the drips and toss sprues in. Thanks for that awesome tip :)
Josh
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"You have got a lot of stories with none... either that or you so full of doo doo this is your only way to get rid of it"...Bugpac
The most read book of all times has a lot of stories and parables in it without having pictures. After reading it once I found out that there are a lot of things to be believed without seeing. I've since read it a couple more times. But to clarify Bug, I'm old and a lot of what I relate happened long before the advent of the digital camera or phones that take pictures. Regardless, I don't need pictures to believe.
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Big difference between a good book. And a old newspaper...
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I'll stick with the book. You need to re-subscribe to the paper. Old goes both ways. How about instead of carping you post some pictures of the plastics you're making?
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Im not one to Boast...
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Thanks for the safety information and tips. I will definitely take all the precautions.
That's a great tip with the ingot mold Tommy S! I hadn't even thought of that. Now I have to find something to put under it to catch the drips and toss sprues in. Thanks for that awesome tip :)
Josh
You are welcome Josh! Again - something that Jerry V taught me in the "Yankees" basement! Start saving coffee cans for your lead - I prefer the metal ones with lids.
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I got my first mold in the mail today. I tried pouring some jigs up and I could not get the 1/8 oz jig to pour. I tried upping the temp, using other sized hooks, pouring faster, etc. but I still could not get the jig to pour. I had ordered a mold release spray (it's graphite spray) but it hadn't shown up yet. Well that showed up about 3 hours after the mold and hooks.
I sprayed the mold and added a bit more heat... Boom perfect 1/8 oz jigs! Since then, I've poured 19 perfect ones with only 2 duds. 1 1/2 oz, a couple 3/8 oz, a few 1/4 oz, and the rest 1/8 oz. Now all I have to do is get a larger air pump for the fluid bed.
I have a question for all you lead pourers, how do you paint a jig that has had a weed guard poured into it? Is it even possible?
Josh
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There's some heat resistant tubing (Do-it catalog page 88) that you can use to cover the weedguard.
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There's some heat resistant tubing (Do-it catalog page 88) that you can use to cover the weedguard.
What about baking the paint on though? Is that still possible? I should have phrased my question better since that is what I was getting at.
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Sometimes holding the mold closer to the spout (If you have the Lee bottom pour pot) helps when pouring smaller jig sizes. Sometimes I will stick the spout right in the hole on the mold and pour.
You may already know this or it's been covered already but,
Are you using soft lead ? You can check the softness with your thumbnail. If your thumbnail leaves a mark in the lead then you're in business. Heating your mold before pouring? Sometimes I will pour jigs without the hooks to heat the mold up in addition to letting the mold warm up sitting on top of the pot waiting for the lead to melt.
How are your jigs turning out ? Smooth = good. Wrinkled = turn the heat up a tad. My LEE pot is set at 7.
Good luck, making your own stuff is a blast not to mention addicting.
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2XL: I found out that holding the mold closer helps a lot, I just forgot to mention that in the post :D I had heard to use good soft lead, a good family friend does stained glass windows and he had about 30 lbs of scrap lead he had accumulated that he gave me. That stuff is super soft.
My jigs have been turning out fairly smooth, I was getting some wrinkling when I was first starting. I ended up having to set my LEE pot at around 5.5-6 to get good pours without flashing. I also noticed that my jigs were looking a little better as the mold warmed up more and more. Thanks for the tips :)
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Right On! 30 Pounds of that stuff = Jackpot!
Wrinkling usually means your mold or lead is not hot enough. When you think your lead is warm enough, pour a few jigs without hooks to make sure your mold is up to temp. You won't have to waste time trying to get your hook back that way. No worries. You are on the right track and will have this down pat in no time.
As an aside, I have never used any mold release type agent, candeling etc on my molds. Never had the need to.
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As an aside, I have never used any mold release type agent, candeling etc on my molds. Never had the need to.
I had tried candling, but that wasn't quite doing the trick for me. I got it workin' now and that's the main thing ;D haha
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I know some of the guys use base pins http://www.barlowstackle.com/Base-Hole-Pins--P368C63.aspx (http://www.barlowstackle.com/Base-Hole-Pins--P368C63.aspx) they say you can leave them in, powder paint, cure and then you pull them out and glue your weed guard in.
I'm another one who has never sprayed any release agent or sooted them and never had any problems. I run a mix of 2 parts tire weight/ 1 part pure and my pot is usually set at 7.
Now that you're pouring lets see some of your pours.
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Teflon pins are the way to go for the guards
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Here's the first 39 good jigs I poured. Sorry about the blurriness of the pictures
(http://i912.photobucket.com/albums/ac323/jl3140/DSCN1568_zps8d294142.jpg)
(http://i912.photobucket.com/albums/ac323/jl3140/DSCN1569_zpsa0213e49.jpg?t=1406851974)
Now they just need some paint and weed guards glued in.
Josh
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Looks very good!!
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What about baking the paint on though? Is that still possible? I should have phrased my question better since that is what I was getting at.
To cure jigs that you painted with the weed guard in you have to use a lower temp setting for a longer period of time. I tried the tubes and the longer cures and it just didn't work for me. I did manage to find that if you put the tubes on the weed guards when curing, you can go about 275 for 45 minutes and the cure will be awesome. If you want to cure with out the tubes then 225 for 1 hour seemed to work good with very little if any weed guard curling. The best way I found is to use the Teflon pins and then paint with those in the weed guard holes, some guys even cure them like that but I pull the pins and then cure and they come out great.
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I buy 1/8" x 48" wood dowels for around $0.50. I mark it in 1" increments and cut them down. After pouring the lead and removing the base pins, I replace the pins with the wood dowels. You can then powder paint the heads. Be sure to use pliers and pull out the wood pins before the paint dries otherwise the paint may crack off around the hole. You can save the wood pins to use again to paint the same color or throw them away as they are cheap. I hope this helps!
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I use the pins that come with the mold and bought some extras. Pour the lead and then pull them out. Powder paint and cure the head and then take a 1/8 drill bit on a cordless drill and clean the hole out. I think it's much easier that way and gives you a cleaner hole to stick the weed guard in. I glue the weed guards in with super glue gel. Never had one pull out yet.
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Awesome. Thanks for the tips guys :)