Custom Baits - Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Justin9j on 12/20/11 20:19 UTC
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I have watched the video on the carrot stick like five times and i can't tell for sure if its on a wacky jig head. i want to fish it wacky without putting salt in the stick.
whats everyones take on this. iam very new to wacky. i bought some weighted wacky hooks to play with before the water gets hard here in Indiana. But i think the jig head would look better.
thanks Justin
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I fish it without salt 100% of the time and use a wacky hook with weight or a split shot (normally 1/16 oz or less). You can really change the action a lot by how far back from the head you hook it and what direction the tail lays. I prefer 1/3 back from the head, and the tail at a 45 degree angle.
Here's an 8 off the 6" Skinny rigged that way. You can also Texas rig them without salt, play with the tail and see the different action you can get.
(http://www.caneycreekmolds.net/gallery/1_01_03_11_12_00_37.jpeg)
Jason
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I love to fish the 6" skinny carrot wacky...and never with salt (bad for your blood pressure because it makes baits hard to make!!!!).
Personally...I think the whole salt thing is **&&^#.
Take a bite out of a bluegill...does it taste salty?
Munch a nightcrawler ...doesn't taste salty to me!
Crawfish.....not a hint of salt!
"Fish hang on to a bait longer with salt...": Let's see some proof....yeah....I hear a bunch of stuff....but any proof?
If salt was so wonderfull....why don't hard plastic baits come with a "salt pocket" to load up?
You want to make the bait sink faster...use a heavier lead/tungsten weight in the head! Sink slowly....use less!
Being a marketing type....what would help sell a LOT of extra baits???Make them more fragil by adding salt!
There is a joke (kind of...) in Marketing that the person who came up with "repeat" in the instructions for sampoo should win the Noble prize for marketing!
Salt in plastic baits....should be a close 2nd place!
So.....let's start a "no salt" movement!
There..... I feel better now! :o
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"Pass the salt, please."
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Tell us how you feel about salt; Andrew :-X.
I can appreciate Andrews angle, but there is another angle as well. With high grade plastic at $40.00+ a gallon or so; thats about $5.00 a pound. Salt is heavier than plastic, but it isn't close to $5.00 a pound either. The more salt you add, the cheaper the bait, as far as raw material costs go.
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I agree with PJM on the salt making a bait heavier, which could have some benefits, but with what I've seen and read, I feel that the addition of salt in soft plastics doesn't have enough benefits to justify the trade-off's. I bought a few hundred 3" Salty RatTails quite awhile back with the intention on fishing them on a JigHead, mostly in Saltwater...to replace the Stingray Grub since they're made so much fatter nowadays.
When I got geared-up to do this Soft Plastic Thing, I remelted alot of the RatTails, added Virgin Plastic to every mix. Every bait I have that has salt in it is tender/fragile/weakened, in comparison to a non-salted bait. I can grab a salted bait and pull it...You can see the plastic breaking everywhere there's a grain of salt, AND once it's stretched to a certain point, it doesn't retract completely back to it's original length, and where it "over stretched" is smaller in diameter than it was originally. There may be some real benefits with salt, but unless someone asks for it in THEIR OWN mix, I'll never add it...seems to be too many negatives...but, to Each His Own.
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Back to the OP...most of my fishin' experience is in Inland Saltwater but I DO fish Fresh, and Wacky is not something I've done at all, YET. I'd lean more towards dropping a 6" Skinny on a Scallop with the Snag-Break-Lose aspect of fishing timber or other heavy cover, but of course this is not always the case AND if You're not losing ANY tackle, You ain't fishin' much. I'll be watching Your Thread, Justin. I'd like to learn more details of this Productive Presentation.
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I fish with and without salt all depends on the fishes mood. One day when we were out and they wouldn't touch the plastic without the salt. I keep both on hand just in case. As was stated earlier it does help plastic go further if on a budget. Keep in mind you don't have to put so much much in as a senko either thats the other end of the spectrum to the extreme.
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One day when we were out and they wouldn't touch the plastic without the salt.
Why do You think that is? Was the action/bait's movement different? Did it fall different? Smell different? Color difference?
And...As was stated earlier it does help plastic go further if on a budget.
...I'm ALWAYS up for keeping my cost down, as long as the cost (trade-off) isn't too high.
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There are really several aspects to this.
1) First and foremast - what impact does it have on the fish? I wish I could answer this 100%. I've had success with salted and unsalted baits. Just my opinion - but I would lean towards it not actually improving the fish striking the bait (there's more to this in #2). Examples would be craws and worms (both would float ideally - hence little to no salt in the bait).
2) Salt changes the action - makes a bait harder / sink. This can be a very good thing. In a stick type bait you will normally compensate for this by adding softener. The key here is to recognize, you are not making a bait, you are making a lure. The difference being a lure needs to perform a certain way for ideal results. This means it's not as simple as just busting out something that looks good, but your recipe needs to be tested and tweaked for optimal performance. This is the difference between bait companys and why some baits work better, even though they look identical.
3) Are you looking at this as a fishermen, or a bait manufacturer? As a fisherman I want it to catch fish, and ideally last for a few (however, I would be more than happy to swap plastic for fish all day long). From a bait manufacturer there are other considerations - they want it to produce as well, then there is some variance on how long they want it to last.
4) A bait without salt, silt, bubbles, etc. will be more durable. We can also remelt our old baits. With an additive in your bait you will more than likely go through more baits, add more colorant, softener, and have remelts that absorb water more. I'm not sure how you would totally flush out the cost benefit of adding salt.
End of the day I think it really comes down to confidence and catching fish. If salt helps in either area - do it. To me, this is what I like the best about what we all do. The mental aspect of striving for the unattainable - the perfect fish catching machine.
Tight lines!
Jason
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Is the salt an attractant or is it's benefit solely from the changing of the bait's characteristics, or both? Has anyone created a very salty bait attractant that could be tested? I have several highly salted natural baits; but they are catfish baits :-X. Some days they work better than anything else for catfish; somedays very few takers. I have caught several smallmouth on them; but no largemouth; In areas where smallmouth are scarce.
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Are you looking at this as a fishermen, or a bait manufacturer?
Fisherman...hands down. Getting fish to open their mouth on it is #1...where the rubber meets the road. From a profit/manufacturer's stand-point, I believe that a bait/lure that produces will get repeat customers and word-of-mouth "advertising"...this is real, ongoing business.
I've been curious for alot of years about the "Pro's/Con's" of Salt...I'm deeply sorry if my previous words seem harsh, it wasn't meant that way. My opinions seem to have that "effect" sometimes...so I'd understand. I feel that alot of what we talk about is in "Discussion Form", where everyone can "put something on the table", read, consider, shoot-down, modify, apply...learning is good.
If salt helps in either area - do it. To me, this is what I like the best about what we all do.
X2
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Is the salt an attractant or is it's benefit solely from the changing of the bait's characteristics, or both?
I think that is the million dollar question. With Bass, I would think it's just to change characteristics, but that's definitely just an opinion vs fact. Bass have been caught on soft worms, toads, frogs, swims, jigs, etc. for a lot of years before salt ever entered the equation. Maybe someone has some scientific info that can support it from a fish catching perspective???
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This is why I love this sport. I raced for 11 years and it's the same there. There is more then one way to skin a cat.
I don't like the salt for the fact it takes action away. But somedays thats what fish want. I hope we don't ever get it all figured out, then what would we talk about. ;D
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I use salt solely for sink rate purposes and scent absorbtion as stated on another post I don't believe that salt makes fish bite or hold on longer by itself however salt will absorb your scent so it won't wash off once you have thrown it in the water a few times. Also salt is super cheap so if your wanting a slightly faster fall rate in my opinion its easier and cheaper 2 add a little more salt than using lead or tungstan. Just my thoughts.
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the reason big companies use it.. i believe is for cost... if that can use 1 cup salt and 3 cups plastic instead of just 4 cups plastic... they just cut costs nearly by 25% ... or 1 cup salt and 2 cups plastic.. then cut by 33%
i think its a marketing ploy about holding on longer ... JM2C
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I sometimes fish salted sticks for weightless fishing, and I have noticed the stick wobbles a little better falling. I believe the softer you can make the bait, is what keeps the fish holding on longer. If I'm fishing a tourney, I don't care how many baits I use, as long as I have a few more seconds or micro seconds to set the hook. Last year, some of my b-hogs would almost or did snap into from throwing them c-rig. Those that made it in the water, the fish would grab it and swim off with the thing, I probably had a good 5 or 10 seconds to set the hook, and the baits where loaded with garlic oil. I came in second that day. That's my 2 cents worth.
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I will use salt only in senkos and carrots that I'm using as a jerkbait. The only reason I use it is for sink rate. I hate using a weighted hook for a jerkbait because I think it takes away from the action. That being said I also hate what salt does to the color and durability of a bait. If I'm using carrots or senkos for anything other than a jerkbait they get NO salt. I also don't like selling a less durable bait so I wont salt anything for a customer unless it's requested. Even at that I always explain my opinion on what salt does to a bait before I will make salted baits for a customer.
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I have also wondered what the salt does to my hooks and hard baits. Back when I used salted baits I kept them in a separate box...but I always worried about where the extra salt fell...what was on my hands etc.
I always made a point to wash and dry any hook I used with a Senko before it went back into the hook box.