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Author Topic: Cloudy Transparents  (Read 19927 times)

Offline bcsteely

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Cloudy Transparents
« on: 04/03/12 23:36 UTC »
I am having some issues with clear transparent plastics that I make.  It has been happening with Transparent Fl Red, Transparent Fl Orange, Cherry Red.  These are not non bleed colours.  Seems to happen most on my 10mm salmon eggs. 

My problem is that after making some batches and packaging them.  About 2-4 weeks later, half the pack has changed to a completely cloudy bait and not the usual crystal clear transparent. 

Is there any reason for this? 

Thanks
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kipbass

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Re: Cloudy Transparents
« Reply #1 on: 04/04/12 06:06 UTC »
Are you using a thermometer to make sure your plastic is getting to 350 degrees or higher? That's just a guess btw..
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Online ctom

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Re: Cloudy Transparents
« Reply #2 on: 04/04/12 06:32 UTC »
I had that happen when the humidity got really high here.... i was fishing in a heavy drizzle and left a tackle drawer open, then closed it not knowing that water had gotten in the trays. Three days later I had cloudy baits so I opened the box up and set it in a room where the dehumidifier was running and they cleared up, never to do it again, in about an hour. I know it sounds stupid since these things get the ultimate dunking when we fish them, but thats what I think the issue is.
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Offline ghostbaits

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Re: Cloudy Transparents
« Reply #3 on: 04/04/12 07:39 UTC »
What plastic are you using? CCM? M-F?

I had some compound from CCM a while back that did the exact thing. Jason has a "cure" if in fact this is the same issue.

Jim
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Offline Jason

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Re: Cloudy Transparents
« Reply #4 on: 04/04/12 10:17 UTC »
I spoke to Greg and this is by far the strangest problem I have heard of.  I'm posting some additional information to see if anyone has any ideas or has experienced a similar problem.

Here is the setup:
Mold: 10MM Salmon Eggs (~200 cavity, 20 rows of 10 eggs - this isn't exact but will help illustrate the problem )
Plastic: CCM - 1 cup at a time
Colorant: MF Transparent Bleeding

When he shoots the mold all 200 eggs look good.  After a period of time 1 or 2 strings out of the 20 will start to get cloudy.  They are all out of the same mold, same batch of plastic, same colorant, same injection, same everything.

This isn't happening with other baits / colors, and isn't a consistent problem.

Thoughts???

Jason
« Last Edit: 04/04/12 10:20 UTC by Jason »
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Offline firetiger

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Re: Cloudy Transparents
« Reply #5 on: 04/04/12 10:21 UTC »
I think ctom has it.

I read an article where guys were taking baits and wrapping them in a wet paper towel over night.  The next day their baits were cloudy/milky and that's what the fish wanted.

So, it could have something to do with moisture.
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Offline ghostbaits

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Re: Cloudy Transparents
« Reply #6 on: 04/04/12 10:35 UTC »
I would discount moisture as all the baits would be subject to the moisture, not just a few here or there or a single string. Moisture would get them all.

Very interesting!!!!

Is there scent or anything else being added? Also what or whose colorant? I suspect the colorant myself.

Jim
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Offline pjmcla

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Re: Cloudy Transparents
« Reply #7 on: 04/04/12 10:42 UTC »
10mm eggs are pretty good sized eggs.  Are they being stored outside where the temperature gets cool at night?  Bleeding transparent colors are picky.  Beautiful colors; but are usually dye based colorants.   Moisture: as Tom points out; will cloud them pretty quickly.  Warm them and "dry them out".  One way is to set them out in a warm sun and see if they turn back clear.  A sure fire way is to take several and "dry them" in a convection oven ( don't tell Mom ) at 180 degrees for about ten to fifteen minutes.
I don't know about the colorant as it is a very low ratio mix of color to plastic; so I would think that if it was the colorant; as well as it is mixed in; it would have to effect the entire batch.  I assume there is good mixing going on.  I wonder if there is a contaminant getting on to the mold in those rows?  Oil maybe.  Is it always the same two rows? 
« Last Edit: 04/04/12 10:54 UTC by pjmcla »
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Offline BareKnuckleJigs

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Re: Cloudy Transparents
« Reply #8 on: 04/04/12 11:26 UTC »
My 1st thoughts...moisture.  As CTom mentioned, I've had the exact same "problem" occur when a little water gets in the Bag-O-Baits then is sealed up, but setting them out clears up the problem.

On newly shot plastic...I'd definitely consider moisture from other areas/sources, while considering EVERY detail.  Is it the 1st shot only, in a cold mold?  Is it near the Sprue?  If it's the same string/cavity of baits every time, that can't be poor mixing.

As PJM pointed out...take the clouded baits and set them out overnight (inside the house is fine), and if they clear up, it's moisture coming from somewhere.  If not, then this is out of my department.
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Offline andrewlamberson

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Re: Cloudy Transparents
« Reply #9 on: 04/04/12 11:28 UTC »
What kind of bags are you putting them into?

Since 1/2 the pack has the issue....something is contaminating only 1/2 of the baits. It it was one the components (colorant, plastic) it would seem logical that they would all turn cloudy.

I would suggest packaging up a bunch...still on the runner (mark the runner to identify them) ...and see if the baits on the same runner are having the issue. I would also see if the baits on one side of the bag vs. the other are cloudy up consistently.


I make a lot of clear/silver flake baits and I have never had a clouding issue...but out of curiosity I am going to put a wet bait in a clear bag and leave on the deck of the boat. I'm betting that the baits on the sunny side will heat up enough to absorb the moisture.

Jason: Is CCM liquid plastic  inherently hydrophilic or hydrophobic? And do you know if that changes once the liquid plastic changes state?

 And I'm surprised you didn't blame it on onyonlyx !
« Last Edit: 04/04/12 11:51 UTC by andrewlamberson »
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Offline bcsteely

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Re: Cloudy Transparents
« Reply #10 on: 04/04/12 11:52 UTC »
The bags Im using are from Johnson Bag Co.  Here is an example of my eggs.  In the picture are 14mm eggs.  I used the 14mm so that they are easier to see. Top eggs are transparent but the bottom eggs have turned opaque.  This colour is MF Transparent Fl Red. 

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kipbass

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Re: Cloudy Transparents
« Reply #11 on: 04/04/12 11:57 UTC »
Maybe something has settled in the mold itself? Try cleaning the mold..see Jason's statement..

"When he shoots the mold all 200 eggs look good.  After a period of time 1 or 2 strings out of the 20 will start to get cloudy.  They are all out of the same mold, same batch of plastic, same colorant, same injection, same everything.

This isn't happening with other baits / colors, and isn't a consistent problem.
Thoughts???

Jason"
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Offline ghostbaits

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Re: Cloudy Transparents
« Reply #12 on: 04/04/12 12:00 UTC »
If it was moisture in the mold, you would see bubbles in the baits when the hot plastic hits it I think. Could be external moisture but all baits would be cloudy.

Moisture in the plastic would give bubbles too.

Jim
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Offline Jason

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Re: Cloudy Transparents
« Reply #13 on: 04/04/12 12:06 UTC »
Quote from: andrewlamberson on 04/04/12 11:28 UTC

Jason: Is CCM liquid plastic  inherently hydrophilic or hydrophobic? And do you know if that changes once the liquid plastic changes state?


It is onyonlyx !

 ;D
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Offline Jason

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Re: Cloudy Transparents
« Reply #14 on: 04/04/12 12:12 UTC »
I think it' going to take some real leg work to narrow it down.  I would document temps, first injection, second, which string, etc.  Basically everything possible to try and find something common to focus on.

My gut wasn't moisture, mainly because they would all be impacted (you would think).  I also don't really think it is any of the ingredients or it would be all of them (you would think).  Could it be heat related or mixing related?

This is quite the mystery.  It will be interesting to see what it is.

Jason
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