Polution and our Water... Split topic from fishing threead - Jason

[Jester]

One year ago a textile plant up river killed 80% of all the fish in the river I was fishing in. So to catch a few fish from the bank was a big deal to me.

Good luck guys

[Denny Welch]

I have fished the Upper Sacramento River since I was in high school.  It had the distinction of being one of the few "Blue Ribbon" trout streams in the country.  It was filled with big, healthy, native rainbow and brown trout.  It ran unimpeded from Lake Siskiou to Lake Shasta...about 40 miles.  The stream was filled with aquadic vegitation and the bug life (hatches) were prolific.  A railroad ran next to the river for most of it's 40 mile course and access points were many.  For an angler, it was Nirvana...just about perfect in all respects.  Andy has probably fished this river and can attest to it's beauty.

About 20 years ago a freight train derailed on the Cantella Loop, just a couple miles below the dam where the river actually starts.  The Cantella Loop is where the train crosses the river and has a very sharp turn leading to the trestle.  One of the tanker cars turned over and spilled its entire load into the river.  That tanker was loaded with a DDT type herbicide and over the next several days it slowly made it's way to Lake Shasta, killing every bug, every plant, and every fish on it's way. It was an ecological nightmare.

There was a lot of controversy on how best to "fix" the river. They decided, in essence, to do nothing and to let nature take over. The river was closed to fishing for about 5 or 6 years. The fish that were in the tributaries to the river survived and they were the ones that largely repopulated the river. The vegetation has returned, the bugs are back, and the fish are prolific. The railroad fixed the Loop, hopefully avoiding reoccurence. Today the river is almost back to it's glory days.

This is perhaps a long-winded way of responding to your last post, Jester. I just wanted to let you know that things happen that you and I cannot control. In time, nature will step in and make things right.

[Jester]

It would be nice if it was a one time deal but the plant continues to dump in the river on expired permits. They closed the river to fishing and swimming again this weekend due to more fish turning up dead. I hope some day they stop the plant from dumping in the river or just shut them down all together before its to late...

[Keith Stone]

The beautiful Illinois River in northeast Oklahoma (and several other nearby creeks) are constantly in danger from chicken poop. WE MUST PROTECT OUR RIVERS! But guess what, the poultry industry throws $ at all the area politicans and poop gets getting dumped, one way or another!

[kipbass]

My father gets the chick poop and spreads it in his garden and tills it in 2 months prior to planting. Granted it would take a lot of farmers to impact your area, but its a start. Btw, the ground is rich in nitrogen afterwards. Plants grow tall and strong.

[Keith Stone]

Yeah, but the runoff effects the river. Multiple your Dad's situation by 500 within the watershed of the river. I have got to think there is a way to make it safe for the river and still good for the crops. So far it hasn't happened in eastern Oklahoma and the river and connected Lake Tenkiller keep on getting green from the poop!

[knifemaker3]

Around here it comes from the so called clean water the city treatment plant is dumping into the creek.  Downstream all the way to where it forks into another stream is nothing but algea and very few if any fish.  The spotted bass coming upstream from the other river used to go up the fork of the stream the city dumps their waste water into, but now go only up the other stream.

Don't blame everything in the water from agriculture or manufactoring.  In reality it is only a small percentage of the total waste being dumped into rivers and streams across america.  Most comes from city waste treatment plants and city runoff.  Just go outside in a rain and watch the oil leaching out of the paved streets and parking lots and watch it run down into the city sewers...which then runs straight to.....the rivers.   

And the environmentalist know this but they also know that the american people won't say anything as long as they can lay the blame on someone other than themselfs....henceforth the idea that manufactoring and agriculture is the only culprits in polluting streams and rivers....wrong!  Waste treatment plants pump out more pollutants everyday than manufactoring and agriculture combined.  And this pollutants are coming directly from american homes.

Want to clean up your water?  Clean up american's use of all the household chemicals we flush down the drain everyday.  THAT would make a HUGE impact on cleaning up our rivers and streams.

I know everyone will probably disagree with me and that is ok.  I'm just telling where the real problem lies while most all americans live their life with blinders on as to what is really causing the problem as they don't want to take personal blame for the problem.  It's much easier to blame big business and farmers. 

[knifemaker3]

Sorry I got off topic....

GREAT FISH!  Looks like I may have to think about getting one of these molds.....if it will ever cool off enough for me to start pouring plastics in my little pouring shed again!   

[Keith Stone]

No offense, but you obviously know nothing about the poultry industry, eastern Oklahoma and the Illinois River. Please don't preach to me about the river I live and fish on. I know it better than you and poultry pollution is a well known fact and the subject of litigation and there are no cities around here! Please don't  be an apologist for an area you know nothing about.

Now there are obvious problems with runoff from any source, whether it be city, waste water treatment, and agribusiness. I still believe the rivers can and should be saved. The cost will probably be passed on to us as consumers anyway. Obviously you favor pollution to the detriment of fresh unadulterated free flowwing rivers. I do not.

An obvious difference of opinion and while I disagree with your position, I respect the right to disagree.

[kipbass]

Someone should pin(lock) this thread so things don't get out of hand here. Or has it? 

[Dave]

  Whoa!    I can hear the same concerns coming from the both of you about the toxins in our waters across the US. Agreed on all statements from the both of you as well.  Now Mr. Stone your passion about the environment is evident in your statements. The chicken industry must be pretty large in your area huh?  Is there anyone like the EPA that you can bring your concern to? I would first try to collect physical evidence to plead your case, such as video footage, pictures, etc that would support your concerns. Then do some research and forward proven studies on what the bacteria's of chicken poop will do to the waters, the fish and overall human necessities.  Kip, I can only suggest the same brotha. No reason for you two to get so frustrated with each other on this because you guys are talking about apples and oranges here. Either way it's fruit.      

Oh and Jester, Dem some nice fish! 

[knifemaker3]

No offense, but you obviously know nothing about the poultry industry, eastern Oklahoma and the Illinois River. Please don't preach to me about the river I live and fish on. I know it better than you and poultry pollution is a well known fact and the subject of litigation and there are no cities around here! Please don't  be an apologist for an area you know nothing about.

Now there are obvious problems with runoff from any source, whether it be city, waste water treatment, and agribusiness. I still believe the rivers can and should be saved. The cost will probably be passed on to us as consumers anyway. Obviously you favor pollution to the detriment of fresh unadulterated free flowwing rivers. I do not.Hmmm, where did I say I favor pollution?  I simply stated not to blame everything on agribusiness across america.  I wasn't refering to just your individual river but to all across america.  While there is obvious parts where certain things can be blamed solely on one source or another, as a whole it is ALL blamed on manufactoring and agribusiness.  This is simply wrong.  That is all I was stating.

An obvious difference of opinion and while I disagree with your position, I respect the right to disagree.

[Jason]

Whoa!    I can hear the same concerns coming from the both of you about the toxins in our waters across the US. Agreed on all statements from the both of you as well.  Now Mr. Stone your passion about the environment is evident in your statements. The chicken industry must be pretty large in your area huh?  Is there anyone like the EPA that you can bring your concern to? I would first try to collect physical evidence to plead your case, such as video footage, pictures, etc that would support your concerns. Then do some research and forward proven studies on what the bacteria's of chicken poop will do to the waters, the fish and overall human necessities.  Kip, I can only suggest the same brotha. No reason for you two to get so frustrated with each other on this because you guys are talking about apples and oranges here. Either way it's fruit.      

Oh and Jester, Dem some nice fish!

X2....

It's across the board.  So many pollutants from so many sources.  End of the day, from all sides, it comes down to greed.  We as Americans are kind of bad about looking the other way when it's not convenient for us.  With that said, all of us should try to add one thing a year to our daily habits that can make a difference.  This could range from being more involved in local politics, to the meds we take, to the cleaners we use, to how much we drive, to how big a motor we need...  The list is endless.  But the truth is - we all contribute.  Have you ever thought of the carbon footprint a banana leaves?  Imagine the pollution put off to get one banana from South America to your local store.  Now apply that to everything.  It's a big problem.

Sorry this thread has been hijacked.  I'm going to split it off and let it be it's own thread.  I think if people want to be constructive this could be educational and a positive thread.  Maybe even help some of us make a few good changes.

Jason

[ghostbaits]

Used soft plastic baits are a pollutant as well. Kudos to those that recycle the plastic!

A lot of this comes down to personal responsibility to me. Whether it be a big company or an individual, each little bit makes a difference, one way or the other.

Common sense would go a long way for the solution to lots of these problems but progress, jobs, etc. meet the environmental concerns somewhere and the happy medium is not always found.

Poultry is BIG business here in GA also. We see the downside of the pollution and the upside of all the jobs. Maybe if other industry could get started again. Of course, that leads to a whole new thread in which I will not start!!!!! 

Jim

[Botanophilia]

Recycling used plastic frogs is the reason I started.  We go through a lot of them in a year, sucks to just throw them away when they get too beat up and it's expensive to keep buying them! 

All that chicken waste should be used to grow corn, which in turn should be used to feed the chickens.  But modern farming generally doesn't work that way.