CCM Plastic

[gone2long]

Do you think that instead of calling customer service that calling an issue on the public forum is the answer, I've read it all Del was great, Bear was great, Kevin was great, Shawn Collins was the man, Jason has it going on, every forum that these companies have has had it's share of growing pains, detractors, loyal followers it goes on and on just call customer service give them your take and give them the chance to get to the bottom of the issue I mean there is a transition going on here or the alternative would be to go back to using someone else's product it all comes around and goes around otherwise most small bait making operations would be out of vendors because there's only so many going round.

[Frank]

Well I started this and had no intension of it going on this way. I have talked to Ryan and I am sending the rest of the plastic back so he can have it checked out. Now like I said before I did not buy it from him but he wants to make it right. I am not asking for anything. I am sure this will be taken care of in due time. I know he has just as much pride in this company as Jason and wants to continue like that. Keep looking back and we all will see what is going on. Frank

[gone2long]

see now that's what I mean and it's not you as a customer Frank it's the overall internet thing and it's misunderstanding of how things should be addressed, glad to here that they are looking at this closely and will get it worked out people don't like change we are a creature of habit and the worst thing that can happen is something not work after time and effort to get it right after all there are so many nuances to getting things just right.  look forward to hearing your resolution.

[Hookset]

   Hello, I am new to the forum, but have been pouring plastic for many years. I was thinking about purchasing some plastic from CCM. Before I do, and after hearing some issues, I would like to know if the heat stabilizer is crystal clear or tinted brown. What I have found over the years is sometimes when its tinted, it causing yellowing. I have been told that cheaper heat stabilizer is usually tinted. I am not trying to stir the pot, but the CCM plastic is not bottom line price range plastic, so before I purchase, just want to make sure what I'm buying.

[ctom]

Hookset....

Welcome to Do-It Caney Creek.

My stabilizer is as clear as a bell as is the worm oil and the softener. The Caney stabilizer and all other components sold here at Do-It/Caney Creek are fully compatable with the CCM plastic.

When it comes to the core component in any plastic...the stabilizer, the softener/hardener and the raw plastic....one should stick with the same maker/provider to assure that compatability. I have wondered if maybe theres a chance that some of the yellowing issues haven't been due to mixing manufacturer's products. Its something to think about.

Again....welcome aboard. Enjoy!

[Denny Welch]

Welcome to the forum, Hookset.  It's always good to have another voice of experience.

[wubbawurm63]

ctom, You said that your stabilizer is clear right? I'm wondering if maybe that's my problem, mine is yellow and was that way when I got it. I thought it was normally yellow, so I never said anything.

[ctom]

Mine sits right on the bench with the worm oil and softener and its as clear as the softener and oil. All of these are in the smallest size available from Do-It/CaneyCreek.

My batches of plastic are seldom larger that 6 ounces so the amount I use is only in drops, not tsp's or anything. My clear dip is done in batches of only two ounces in smaller pyrex cups getting like 10 drops of stabilizer on the initial cook and I'll add as I re-heat, maybe 6 drops on a re-melt as soon as the teemp gets high enough to liquify the plastic....270 or so I think is what I'll read on the digital.

There are so many variables in this stuff the best a person can do is to develope a system and techniques that work consistently, like the recipes, so that each heat up and shoot has as near to the same steps as possible. I use an 1100 watt microwave in all my cooking/heating/re-heat/remelt except for when I am doing laminated baits and need to keep the colors hot simultaneously and then the sand bedded hot plate gets some use too. My microwave rotates the cup as it heats and the only thing I may do different from others is I use and double layer of terry cloth bath towel in the plate in the microwave to absorb any spills or splashes and to cushion the pyrex cups from the glass plate. When removing the smaller pyrex cups I use a lot of,  the towel also keeps keep those hot cups easy the handle. The towel will always be in the micro when its in use though.

According to my pocket book, "bulk" plastic for me is 2.5 gallons a pop. Only once have I had two full units this size un-opened at a time. Generally I have one full and one open and about a quart remaining when I re-order. Here at home the boxed plastic gets shuffled around enough to keep it agitated and blended. For every three 2.5 gallon boxes or so of plastic, I get a bottle of stabilizer. Thats my rate of usage. Softener usage is slightly less, really depending on how many smaller, softer baitsI am making. Not all plastic batches get stabilizer and not all get the softener. Perhaps by keeping what I have on hand in manageable quantities I don't see any issues in any of the products, I don't know. I buy only the CCM Crystal Clear soft formula platic and everything save for colors and UV enhancer that gets used with it comes from the same place. It may be that since I am using the soft formula of plastic that I don't see much of the yellowing issues because of the "soft" plastic formulation right out of the box....what firmness formula is being seen yellowing the most? The only time I see yellowing of any kind in using the soft formula and keeping all of the additives on a constant is when operator error causes the plastic to heat too long, too fast on re-melts, or to be re-heated/re-melted too many times.

I will note that since the merger I have not ordered new stabilizer.

[Denny Welch]

Tom...just wanted to say thanks for this post.  You just have that ability to convey useful and practical information with almost every post and you have a willingness to share that information with the rest of us.  Andy, Paul, Frank, Jim and so many others are the same way.  It's what makes this forum special.

And, yes, I did pickup on the "digital" reference and I'm sure it was done for Andy's benefit.

[Lamar]

I just went and looked at my heat stabilizer and my bottle looks yellow or maybe more amber. So I put some in a clear glass and it's gin clear. So for me it's the bottle making it look yellow not the stabilizer.

[Hookset]

   Thanks for the welcome. My experiences with other brands of plastics was, I would order a batch of 5, 5gal containers of plastic, worked great, could run 6 cups of plastic in a presto pot, or two pots with 6 cups, using Bears stir systems. Make clears with glitter or pearls, without any issues, would come out beautiful to the last lure. Then you order another batch, and it would yellow in a short time. Then I found this forum, did some reading, and most seemed to like the plastic. Then I see this thread, so not trying to be negative, because this seems to be an issue with many brands of plastic, just before I buy again, I would like to see problems solved.
    Also, everything I use was cleaned maticulously. When I had issues, I did everything on my end to make sure it was not me causing the yellowing. I never heat plastic more than 330 degrees, then lower the temperature to around 290-300 to hand pour.

   So in conclusion, anyone who ever used "Good" plastisol knows how well it works, and how clear you can pour large batchs of lures with no issues. And how enjoyable it is to make good lures without pulling your hair out LOL

[TTDuckman]

I got a pint of CCM stabilizer in January.  When I got it, it appeared amber.  I have used about 80% of it with no incident.  I was quite concerned about the color when I got it as it had been crystal clear in the bottle in prior orders.  Baits came out clear/clean and that is all I need.

Tim

[Do-It Corp.]

The stabilizer does have a slight amber hint to it, but the small amount that is required to be added does not have much of an impact on the overall color or clarity.

[ctom]

Thanks Denny. Just trying to offer possible solutions to a real puzzler.

Duckman....Quantity can change the perceived color in a clear bottle. So can the light source. What looks clear to me in a 5 ounce doker bottle could look entirely different in a 16 ounce bottle. Still, when you consider the dilution rate in even a small batch of plastic even a light amber product would have zero affects on the plastic. The UV enhancer I use is a fairly strong amber color and there isn't a hint of it being in my 2 ounces cover dip even with 6 or 7 drops.

My own personal belief is that I need to work in quanities that I can control very easily. By control I mean the heat, the coloring, the softness, the number of times I can handle the plastic starting with a cold chunk. I know that large quantities get away from me all too easy even when using recipes and paying close attention to staggered cook times and heat settings. I also keep my work area un-cluttered, and that means mentally as well as physically. I do not try to have a conversation and work at the same time. Its all too easy to omit something necessary or to let something cook longer than it needs to. My posting constantly uses the phrase "baby steps" and I stand by that 100% for the hobbyist plastics player. Doing so can eliminate the largest problem in working with plastic....operator error.

I cannot speak for those working in large volumns. They have their own control measures that have worked for them time and time again. But I will also suggest that the hobbyist has to work in a harsher, more critical, environment because small quantities of plastic go from friendly temps to outlandinsh in three seconds in a microwave. Colors can go from oakie doakie to damn in a heartbeat. Too little initial heat can provide nothing more than a sticky pile of something. Since the hobbyist is closest to what I do, my observations I'll share openly to try and resolve an issue and the first place I look in my mind is what inconsistency is found in the person's methodology. Its usually something outside of the parameters of product quality. Bottom line to this; controlling the process of making plastic out of a bottle of something the consistency and color of milk is paramount for the professional and the hobbyist. The problems that can befall a large scale outfit are not the same as what hobbyists see. The may be similar but production methods set the two apart. For both, the most common problems don't arrive in bottles, they come as operator error. I know I mess up enough plastic to prove it. If user error doesn't doesn't apply, then the problem exists with the manufacturer. Nobody at Caney formulated or made the raw plastic and I know for a fact that nobody at Do-It does either. A simple heads up to Do-It is all that's needed to make them aware of the problem and for them to resolve the issue with whomever while at the same time addressing the issue with the product manufacturer. No amount of fluffing on a web site is going to solve the problem any quicker. Serious issues, like large scale yellowing, should be taken directly to Do-It by a phone call or a direct customer contact e-mail. Have your order ifo handy so tracking product dates back thru the company is made easier.

Andy has his bent on thermometer use and I leaning heavy on taking things slow and easy. Denny has his gloves with a roll of quarters inside for tough cases. I always found this site as a helping place for small guys and large guys alike. While the sheer size has taken a quantum leap, the aire of helpfulness is still here. I think the issue that brought this thread to a head is beyond what we can discuss or solve in here. We need to see what the maker says. We can still learn from all of this. and we can all walk away with a few new things to think about that in the end will make for a whole bunch of happy campers.

[kipbass]

Fyi the thermometer Andy recommends is now $12 and change, it used to be about $20 I think.