CC Croaker

[kipbass]

While attempting to pour a laminate of the croaker, the bottom peels away from the top. I have tried keeping the bottom half of the mold on a hot plate. The hot plate is inconsistant, and gets the mold too hot and the first pour doesn't set up for awhile. What else can I do?

[Jason]

Are you pouring the belly then injecting the rest of the bait?  This is how most do it and then put eyes on and dip just the body in clear plastic.  I haven't heard of them not sticking together well (even without the dip in clear).

What kind of plastic are you using?  Colorant, glitter, salt, floating bubbles, any other additives you may be adding???

You shouldn't need to put it on a hot plate or any other heat source.

Can you post a pic.

Thanks,

Jason

[Underdog]

I hand pour the belly then inject the top. Make sure the top color is 335 to 350 and if you dip them it won't matter anyway. What type of plastic can make a difference also when it comes to lams separating. I use mf and cc crystal clear.

[kipbass]

I was testing out a sample of plastisol from ispikeit.com, soft pourasol. I only added colorant to the plastic, 2oz plastic w/CC White and 4oz plastic w/ccgreen. Yes i hand poured the belly and injected the rest. I did heat the green to about 340. No Clue

[Underdog]

if you dip them there shouldn't be a problem. On average, I pour about 400 frogs a week. I pour all the bellies separate. Sometimes, my bellies will sit for 2-3 days. I never have a problem with them separating, as long as I dip them. Although, if I have a bad shot, I try to peel the belly from the top apart and I re-use the belly again. I haven't used the Spike It plastic, but I have heard that there are a lot of air bubbles in it. Do you find this to be true? I have less of a problem with it peeling apart when I use the same plastic for both top and bottom. For instance, if I use MF for the top color and bottom color, it is very difficult to pull them apart. But since Jason came up with his new plastic, I like to use Jason's plastic for the lighter color bottom and MF plastic top color. If I use two different types of plastic, sometimes it is easy to pull the top and bottom apart prior to dipping. I know Jim is talking about posting a video about hand pouring. Hopefully, when the busy season calms down, I can post a video on production pouring the frogs.

[kipbass]

if you dip them there shouldn't be a problem. On average, I pour about 400 frogs a week. I pour all the bellies separate. Sometimes, my bellies will sit for 2-3 days. I never have a problem with them separating, as long as I dip them. Although, if I have a bad shot, I try to peel the belly from the top apart and I re-use the belly again. I haven't used the Spike It plastic, but I have heard that there are a lot of air bubbles in it. Do you find this to be true? I have less of a problem with it peeling apart when I use the same plastic for both top and bottom. For instance, if I use MF for the top color and bottom color, it is very difficult to pull them apart. But since Jason came up with his new plastic, I like to use Jason's plastic for the lighter color bottom and MF plastic top color. If I use two different types of plastic, sometimes it is easy to pull the top and bottom apart prior to dipping. I know Jim is talking about posting a video about hand pouring. Hopefully, when the busy season calms down, I can post a video on production pouring the frogs.

Yes it has bubbles, but not nearly as much as Chemionics that I bought from Bears. It doesn't smell nearly as bad either. I tend to get bubbles from stirring or heating; I don't doubt most of it could be my own fault. Though I never had any bubbles with LC, get what you pay for I suppose.
I have not tried dipping yet, I was trying to get the hang of making them first. My last frog began peeling at the rear, the front side stuck better. Maybe it wasn't fully dry?

[Jason]

One other thing to consider is if you are fully cooking your plastic.  I don't know much about the brand you are using, but as a general guideline you want to get it up over 350 for the plastic to fully do it's thing (at a molecular level).  You can then let it cool and use it however, but it needs to reach that temp to fully cook.  Undercooked plastic will not produce good baits from an integrity perspective.  You may want to check with the mfg. and find out what their heating guidelines are.

Jason

[ghostbaits]

I am not knocking the Lureworks plastic as the soft is not bad however, you do get what you pay for and I see the peeling problem with their medium and hard.

I am GUESSING that they are using less expensive ingredients (PVC) and the larger PVC doesn't adhere as well as the plastisols with small pvc's. Just a guess though.

I have some soft and your frog will be VERY limber as their soft is SOFT.

I would not use the hotplate as the soft is a tiny bit tacky as it is so you may have to wait really long to de-mold.

Jim

[Mick]

I'm only a beginner my self and dont have a clue about the different types of plastisol but have had the same thing happen to me when i first did some laminated belly's


 I found taht if the top isnt sticking to the belly when you inject it could be the time betwen pouring and injecting the mold, the belly may be filming over to much to get the the plastic to key in with the belly and the top may not be hot enuff to melt the belly, try flaming the top of the belly with a small pocket blowtroch before you inject, it should give the other plastic something to key into.


regards mick

[jeffhill]

I usually use Calhoun medium and I have the same problem. I just dip all of mine so I never worried about it much.

[andrewlamberson]

I'm new to this bait making thing also (just a few months) but I'm not having any issues using the CC plastic (medium). But I inject the 2nd color asap (I let the bottom set up just enough that it doesn't flow when I tilt the mold) and inject the 2nd color at 350 degrees.

Here's a newby question, could you just touch it up with crazy glue...and then dip? Or does wet crazy glue do bad things in hot plastic??

[Jason]

I should probably post this in a different thread but I think it really addresses this problem at its core.

This is one of the many current debates about plastic.  Many choose a less expensive plastic, for different reasons (availability, etc.) but cost normally plays into it at some point.  Things to consider to get the true cost of plastic: plastic cost, shipping, wasted plastic, your time, proper disposal of the containers, and something most don't want to bring up but I will - your health.  If all of these are factored in the end result may not be what many expect.

To get a basis for your calculations you can just weigh your baits and plastic.  I was talking to a guy that makes production crappie baits yesterday and he was telling me he was very unhappy with his current plastic, but that CC was beyond his budget.  We did the math together and the cost of his baits with the less expensive plastic was $.09 vs CC at .11 - this is for an entire bag of baits - not one bait.  Yes the cost of 5 gallons may be $20 different, but an entire bag of the end product was $.02 different.  If he factors in his waste from bad injections, bubbles, time, the health of him and his son who helps him, it quickly becomes a no brainier (at least for me).  Now this was his situation.  If someone only made 20" worms, with an injection machine, that would be the other extreme and they would have an entirely different evaluation.

Caney Creek is a family business.  My wife and both my boys work with me.  Cost does matter, but with our plastic, coolant for the CNC, aluminum, and many other things we have gone through the same process, and every time have come to the same conclusion.  Saving what looks like a few bucks is a marketing illusion that is created by companies with inferior products to try and trick us.  Every time we have tried to save a few dollars it has cost us way more than what we saved.  CNC coolant - tried several less expensive options, dulled a bunch of tools prematurely...  The cost of any one of the tools more than covered the better coolant.

I'll stop.  I know I've more than explained the point.  With that said, there are a lot of options out there and I would encourage you to try them all and truly measure the actual cost: LC, MF, Ozark, Spike-It, Calhoun, MarChem, CC Crystal Clear, etc (please feel free to add others).  You may be surprised by what you find.  Every single one has good qualities.  The traits I would measure are:

1. Usability
2. Health
3. Smoke
4. Stability
5. Smell
6. Clarity
7. Time
8. Cost
9. Shipping
10. Environmental Impact / Container disposal fees

You may find that more than one plastic really suits your needs.  At the end of the day you have to use what works best for you and your situation.  There's not one plastic I know of that is a perfect fit for all applications - not one.

Let the hunt begin...

Jason

[pjmcla]

Amen, Jason. 
I think I read this somewhere -
Just look at all the stuff from China with lead paint and Cadmium ( of all things ) in childrens toys, etc, etc.,  instead of made in America to save 2 cents per toy, so the corporate higher ups "justify" this quarters bonus and a new pay increase as they downsize their American workforce. 

I could be mistaken though.

Sorry to hijack.