Thanks guys, Apdriver, I suggest spending the extra coin for the German made ones, that is what I use and I can tell you that the cheap ones will work ok but if use them a good bit they will wear faster. I got the German made ones after I badly grooved a pair of the cheap ones, the ones I have now have lasted 8 years and get used heavily so get the better ones. As for the nesting pliers, they are ok but only have one bending surface but they will work.